Up with "UP"...Another reason why English is baffling 5

[xlbo]

If the use of one of those words over another tells you something about the inhabitants of the town, then the two words do not "mean exactly the same thing"

why yes they do - any thoughts I have about the inhabitants of a town (or indeed a towne) do not have any bearing on what I believe the word town (or towne) to mean

To me, both words describe a physically stable population within set boundaries of size where people live, work and play.

the extra "e" may have been added by inhabitants. It may have been added by politicians. It does not matter because it doesn't change the description of the place...

Rgds, Geoff

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[tgreer]

any thoughts I have about the inhabitants of a town (or indeed a towne) do not have any bearing on what I believe the word town (or towne) to mean

You get a written job offer from a company in another location, and it says "and we think you'll love our small town.", and later another job offer from a company in a different city that says "and we think you'll love our small towne."

You're telling me that in the second case, you might think, "I don't want to work in a place where the inhabitants are such snobs, so I'll take the first offer instead."

How is that not based on the meaning of "towne" vs. "town"?



Thomas D. Greer

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[xlbo]

As I have already said - we have no idea who named teh town. I didn't choose to live where I was born so why would the name have any bearing on what I think of the people who live there....which by the way is my point - that is to do with the people that live in the town - not the meaning of the word "town" or "towne" itself which I have already described.

Being as I am obviously failing to understand your point, please describe, with reference to my example how a town which I think of as "a physically stable population within set boundaries of size where people live, work and play" is any different to a towne which I think of as "a physically stable population within set boundaries of size where people live, work and play"

Rgds, Geoff

Three things are certain. Death, taxes and lost data. DPlank is to blame

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[tgreer]

All I can use as evidence is your own words:

to me, "town" and "towne" mean exactly the same thing - there is no difference in meaning - it tells me far more about the inhabitants of that town than the place itself !

I find that to be a contradiction. You state that "there is no difference in meaning", and immediately follow it by describing a difference in meaning, by saying "it tells me".

WHAT tells you? I assumed that the "it" referred to the word "towne". Thus the word "towne", to use your own words, "tells you far more...", than does the word "town". If that's not a difference in meaning, then what is?

Perhaps it was a wrong assumption on my part. Maybe "it" didn't refer to the word "towne", but instead to a little birdie who whispered his thoughts about the inhabitants to you, since those thoughts, according to you, cannot have been caused by the word "towne". We must therefore assume something else, which you failed to mention, did.

But even if we grant that, and so are left with the conviction that, to you, "town" and "towne" are identical, and any thoughts you have about a town vs. a towne are perforce mystical in nature and origin, that only works if you don't talk to anyone else. Because if you inform me that you're moving to a "towne", I'll have to ask you what you mean by that. My first assumption would be that you're moving to a quaint little village in rural England.



Thomas D. Greer

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[PhilWB]

Well, the length of discussion here suggests that UP has more power than IF. To add my own favourite to the discussion, Fat chance and slim chance, both mean not much chance at all.
BTW going right back, Knocked up has a 3rd meaning, to tire in endeavour and fail to finish, eg He knocked up badly in the afternoon.
Plus cut the mathematics tricks using 9 Given a choice between 1 whole cake and .999999........ of the cake, I am not leaving any crumbs I will take the 1 whole cake.
Take care, Phil

 

[tgreer]

I've always heard "fat chance" used to mean just the opposite. In other words, the chances aren't fat at all. So the term overwhelmingly implies sarcasm. In other words:

fat chance = slim chance + sarcasm



Thomas D. Greer

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[PaulTEG]

I would see "town" as a contraction of "towne", and it's use by those nice people at the mall, as nothing more than a mere marketing ploy.

By use of the word contraction, I suggest that the words are not identical in spelling, but are so in meaning, regardless of summary judgements that could be made about the populations therein.

And we all know what Bill Hicks said about those nice people in marketing

;-)
--Paul

cigless ...

 

[CajunCenturion]

<forum moderator speaking>
Let's not go down any further tangents please. New topics are welcome, but in their own thread.

Thanks.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BobRodes]

Where was that additional shade of understanding in between the time I spoke it and the time you heard it? I suggest that it was within the word.

I suggest that it was within the intutive connection between people! I don't accept that we are disconnected one from another, and that our thoughts are entirely our own. Rather, I see each mind as a sort of semi-permeable thing.

However, one could look at it as being within the word, in that the word is a means of describing the sum total of collective record of meaning thereto pertaining. And, that record is accessible as communication from the subconscious mind. So, when one hears a word, it may well trigger feelings that are not part of the nexus of feelings of the hearer's conscious experience. So, I guess you could see said triggered feelings as the shades of meaning coming from the word itself; however I see the word as the key that unlocks those shades of meaning from the collective unconscious.

 

[xlbo]

PaulTEG - couldn't have said it better myself

My first assumption would be that you're moving to a quaint little village in rural England.

But you really have tripped yourself up there havn't you ? You identify towne as village. It isn't - a town is a towne is a town - there are actual physical conditions to be applied to be a town - a town CANNOT be a village in the same way that a town CANNOT be a city.

towne to me is no different than town and if you realy believe that a towne is a quaint english village you really need to update your ideas. The extra "e" means nothing except to people who believe marketing speil

Rgds, Geoff

Three things are certain. Death, taxes and lost data. DPlank is to blame

Please read FAQ222-2244 before you ask a question

 

[tgreer]

The extra "e" means nothing except to people who believe marketing speil

Do you grant that such people exist? If so, end of discussion.

The extra "e" means nothing except to people who believe marketing speil

...and to you, to whom it "tells far more..."

Your latest post described "physical conditions". I've been discussing WORDS.

I also tire of the discussion, since I think I've thoroughly disclosed my viewpoints. Anything else would be mere repetition or argument. So if you'd like to have the last word, feel free!




Thomas D. Greer

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[xlbo]

<sigh> if you must believe that a towne is an any way different than a town then do so.

To me, town and towne are no different. They both describe a physical location that has nothing to do with its inhabitants and whether they may or may not be either "quaint" or "snobbish". The inhabitants of the town have no bearing on what I think the word means.

To be honest though, it is a poor example as the word "town" is rather more than just a word - it is a physical object with specific criteria that must be met to allow it be called a town (size, population etc). To me (as a former architecture student), this is 1st and foremost in my mind when thinking about villages, towns and cities.

Rgds, Geoff

Three things are certain. Death, taxes and lost data. DPlank is to blame

Please read FAQ222-2244 before you ask a question

 

[tsdragon]

as the word "town" is rather more than just a word

That would seem to prove Tom's point.

Can you think of ANY word that is nothing more than "just a word"?

And on that note, I think I'll take Tom's example and bow out of the discussion.


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[xlbo]

never mind, it is quite obvious that you have no idea what I am talking about.

It's like saying that a megabyte is different from 1024 kilobytes - town is a quantative measure - not just a place - and therefore a town cannot be any different from a towne

Rgds, Geoff

Three things are certain. Death, taxes and lost data. DPlank is to blame

Please read FAQ222-2244 before you ask a question

 

[ESquared]

Speaking only about the United States, for what it's worth, the name of a place often has little to do with the actual type of political entity that it is.

A township is an actual incorporated place which has a mayor, a treasurer, and so on, and it becomes the responsible party for various things, has legal jurisdiction and so on. But some place "The Town of Farville" may in fact not be a town. It might just be a place name, and the jurisdictional authority over it rests in the county.

There are townships, villages, counties (which in some states are called boroughs) and probably more... and the name of these things often does not match its type. I don't remember all the possible variations and it does vary by what state you're in. I might even have some of the details wrong that I've said. But the basics are correct.