U.S. v. India: Turned down Indian work - would you? 1

[pl12987]

I had a wonderful opportunity today for a 6-month web development contract, with good pay. And I turned it down cold.

I am a U.S. citizen and the contact person was Indian, which by itself did not turn me off...I work with Indians all the time and they are good people in general. But then I was told to sign a non-compete agreement. It seems this was not a recruiter for the client, but the actual development contractor, to whom I would be a subcontactor. Their web site is plain-vanilla, no company details at all or real info, just marcom. But the copyright line was "Pvt. Ltd." On the phone, they said yes, they are all Indians, but "now we are in the United States."

That's when I got a little ugly. I said that while I have no personal prejudice, I am not going to move to the other side of the country to work for an unknown Indian firm that - for all I know - is subsidizing some Bangalore operation. I just can't do it. The unknowns of the company are a deal-killer itself, but also why should I have to work for an Indian firm when the client is American. And why did an American client hire an Indian firm (but in the U.S. apparently charging U.S. rates) in the first place. I need the work badly.....and yet, I just felt I had to draw a line. I don't know who these guys are at all, and the whole thing felt wrong and cheesy.

Is that where we are going? Is the only way to find work to work for Indian companies here in the U.S.? Should we just be pleased they are willing to give us some jobs at all? Again, I am one of the most international people I know, and I am not proud of my prejudice. But there you are. Am I bad?

 

[SQLSister]

Working fro a multinational company that is owned by foreign nationals would not bother me at all, but it would have to a be a reputable company that I oucld research. And under no circumstances will I ever consider signing another non-compete agreement. The last time Id I was out of work for 11 months when I got laid off and the copmany that laid me off still would not allow me to work in the same field (where I could have gotten a job in a matter of days).

NO when your instincts tell you something is wrong, believe them and run as fast as you can.

 

[ecobb]

Actually, depending on the state you live in, sometimes non-compete's are not considered legal agreements and they can never be enforced, even if you signed one. I don't know how (or if) this would apply to pl12987, but if your state has the "right to work" statute, there's nothing your company can do with a non-compete. Would you be signing an "Indian" or "American" non-compete? Would a non-compete in India be valid in America? Would an American non-compete be valid in Asia (hey, if you're thinking about going to India to work, why not other countries?) Not that any of that matters, I agree 100% with SQLSister, you were right to walk away and leave it.

Hope This Helps!

Ecobb

"Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer." - Homer Simpson

 

[BJCooperIT]

Good for you! You followed your instincts and stood your ground saying "No!" when it did not feel right.

I, unfortunately, accepted a contract when a U.S. based Indian firm located my resume for a state contract. The way it worked was the state paid a consulting company who then paid the Indian firm, who then paid me - when they got around to it. It was a good rate, too bad it seldom was paid on time and they consistently miscalculated my tax deductions. I told them that this may be the way business is conducted in their country but is unacceptable practice in the U.S. They lied to me ("The check is in the mail!&quot. I wound up in a conference call during which I told them in my sternest "Mom" voice that I would never accept such behavior from my kids and certainly would not accept it from them.

They tried to coerce me into signing a noncompete agreement that effectively would have prevented me from working for a year after the contract, even if I found the work on my own. I refused to sign their version and ultimately signed a modified version that said, basically, I will not work privately for the client while I work for you. My whole experience was a nightmare.

What a shame I took that job and ignored my instincts. I was on the lookout for this behavior because of seeing how a co-consultant of mine was treated by her Indian employer. The things they did to her were unbelievable by U.S. standards and she felt obligated to tolerate it because they were going to process her H1B paperwork. One day they called her and told her they were going to open a new office in Delaware so all their H1B employees had to pay them $30 per pay from then on to help fund it. They also tried to claim she had already taken her vacation and refused to pay her for it. They would change her benefits without notification, the list goes on and on...

There are good and bad companies out there. It is our responsibility to investigate the firm that makes us an offer that might be too good to be true. As long as there are people who work for the bad firms, they will continue to mistreat their employees and reap the profits.

Let us put this in perspective, would you accept the same job from a U.S. company who "is subsidizing some Bangalore operation"? Your answer to this question will answer whether or not you are "bad".

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[Tarwn]

I think that, based on the pure lack of research-ability and the no-compete you made a good decision. I don't think the nationality should be held against them, unless it is found that they used that as part of their selling pitch to the client (Hi, we're from overseas, we'll do your project, something like that).

As far as doing projects for other foreign companies, it amazes me what is considered foreign these days. or to be a little less subtle, Happy Channukah to other Jewish people, American and otherwise. Luckily I'm not my mother or this would go way off topic

-T

[sub]01000111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100101 01100101 00111111[/sub]
The never-completed website:

http://www.tiernok.com/

 

[pl12987]

Tarwn,
What are you are saying? Are you Jewish and have been discriminated against on that basis? How would somebody know that and why would they care? Could you please explain.
pl12987

 

[Tarwn]

Nah, just commenting on someones example of foreign companies above, wasn't aware I was a foreigner

[sub]01000111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100101 01100101 00111111[/sub]
The never-completed website:

http://www.tiernok.com/

 

[flapeyre]

IANAL, but I am given to understand that most noncompete clauses which extend past the termination of one's employment are not enforceble. Check with a lawyer.


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[SQLSister]

They may be enforceable depending on the state (or country). I know that the company that made me sign one had successfully won several cases where they enforced the noncompete.

 

[bbarr]

I lived and worked in Asia for several years (Taiwan) and speak Chinese very, very well (not ethinic Chinese). I worked for a few local companies and then finally ended up working for an american one the last few.

It's not racist, just a fact, different societies do things in different ways. We in America are a law/rules based society. The essence of being American is being in a society that exists do to a written constitution. In Asia, it's based on shared history, culture, language belief.

It's a lot more like the wild west there. You don't trust someone there because they flash a badge, you trust them cause you or your great great grandfather went to school with his great great grandfather. You just know him and if theres' a problem, you don't go to some corrupt magistrate (which IS the usual view of law enforcement / politicians in Asia), but use your connections to deal with the problem.

The idea of rule by law is still new and it will take some time to spread and to really shape the way they do things over there.

 

[AnanthaP]

pl12978. You did right and all sensible persons will support you.

Non-compete is bad and not enforcible. An agreemnt thats bad in law or natural justice doesn't stand up.

Non disclosure is something else.

Some other points.
Indian companies may be classified as:
(1) Development centres of MNCs-Oracle, M$, Motorola, Cisco etc. Some are franchised to the next level companies but have identical work environment. eg: Novel thru OnwardNovell. In this list would also b development centres of Non-IT MNCs like Ford. (btw MNC = multi national companies).
(2) Top Indian companies like TCS (TCS-America of the Indiana case fame is their subsiduiary), WIPRO (also a franchisee of both Motoroal AND Cisco and imagine their non-compete and non-disclosures agreements) and INFOSYS. These would be listed on NASDAQ.
(3) Next tier service and product providers like cognizant (partnering Dun and Bradstreet maybe some equity participation and funds reartriation back to USA), i-flex. Good, standardised, codified and implementable practices.
(4) Programming shops of say 20 to 100 Java Boom era programmers with a point man or two in the USA, probaly working out of a residential apartment.

My advice. Run from the last, but consider the others.

AnanthaP from India.
End

 

[MDXer]

in some states where non competes are enforcable the company that chooses to enforce the non-compete may be responsible for lost income.

"Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!"
- Daffy Duck

 

[johnherman]

Non compete clauses of over 6 months have not held up in courts in any state. Non compete clauses have also not held up in court when the contract is broken by the employer (fired, laid off, etc). Rights to intellectual property produced for the company while an employee is a totally different subject, however.

Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side because there is more manure there - original.