Two key presses required for each tone output 2

[OrangeMonkey]

I've got a wierd problem with my digital phones. When I call a number that has a menu (press one for sales, two for service) I have to press the key twice because the first time a tone is not sent. But the second time it is. Its the same for any key. I have only made one change and that was concerning the caller ID sending the area code on local calls. Is there a setting on the switch or individual phones which would control this?

 

[OrangeMonkey]

I wanted to update this thread. I had a guy from Morefield Communications here today and he believes it's the NT8D17FA CONF/TDS Board. He said we wouldn't know for sure until it was replaced. Is there a way to pinpoint the bad card before I replace it? I found a card on eBay for 15 bucks so I guess if it works I am set. If it doesn't I have a backup.

 

[acewarlock]

Did you try hitting the # key after dialing the number and before you had to hit the 1 like I asked you to do? If your going to ask for help and we ask you questions so we can give you an answer and you don't respond, we're all wasting our time. I doubt if replacing the card will make any difference and it looks like the guy from Morefield Communications doesn't know much more than you.

No insult intended







This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[OrangeMonkey]

I still need your help. I purchased a used NT8D17FA CONF/TDS Board on eBay and installed it today. I still have the same situation. This card does control the dial tone to the digital phones but it still requires two key presses to generate one tone. Someone must have had this problem and can offer some advice. I did follow the previous advice and pressing the # makes no difference. Thanks for your continued support.

 

[GHTROUT]

LD21 Print the RDBs that calls go out on. Look at the TIMR section. In LD16 CHG the RDB and at CTRL enter YES, then at TIMR enter ODT 2000 and EOD 2000.

These are the "End of Dial" timers. You can even go lover, say 1000 for example, but if you have CDR reports, sometimes the digits dialed may be lost in reports.



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[OrangeMonkey]

Sorry, GHTROUT
Your suggestion made no difference. But you may be in the ballpark. I am having a problem after the number is dialed and connected. Using a digital phone ie 2616 or 2008 when I need to navigate an automated menu I must press the desired key twice to generate one touch tone. I have changed the NT8D17FA CONF/TDS Board since this board controls digital dial tone. It made no difference so assuming the card is good something else is causing this. Could one of the other timers be wrong? I have listed them below.

ROUT 0
ICF 512
OGF 512
EOD 13952 (the default setting)
NRD 10112
DDL 70
ODT 4096 (the default setting)
RGV 640
FLH 510
GRD 896
SFB 3
NBS 2048
NBL 4096
TFD 0

ROUT 3
ICF 512
OGF 512
EOD 13952 (the default setting)
DSI 34944
NRD 10112
DDL 70
ODT 4096 (the default setting)
RGV 640
FLH 510
GRD 896
SFB 3
CRD 512
TFD 0
LEXT 100

Thanks for your help.

 

[curtismo]

(This may have been answered before (and I missed it) in the thread).

Do you have any analog sets on your switch? If so, if you call this analog set do you need two key presses on your digital phone to generate DTMF tones through it?

 

[OrangeMonkey]

CURTISMO,
Yes I believe I tried this experiment and the answer was yes. I need two key presses from the digital phone to the analog phone. The analog phone generates its own tones correctly.

 

[GHTROUT]

Try setting the EOD and ODT values lower. You can go all the way down to 128. Just make sure you can still make other calls.

The only other related timer is the NIT timer in the Customer Data Block - but that is a last resort...very last since its lowest value is 2 seconds

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[OrangeMonkey]

GHTROUT, Can you explain why these timers would be causing my problem? The issue I have occurs after the call is established so why would these timers have anything to do with my problem? The timers are now set to the default values according to the manual. When you say the NIT timer is related... how is it related?

 

[GHTROUT]

The EOD and ODT are "End of Dial Timers". Odlly, the best explainations for these timers does not exist in today's books does from the books printed in the 1980's - which I have scanned pages of here:

http://www.ghtrout.com/ghtrout/files/early_ld16_info.zip

The NIT timer is the NARS Interdigit Timer which determines when dialing is complete by timing between each key press. I don't have a good explanation of the NIT timer.

As for EOD and ODT - While you say the call is established, perform this test:

Set the EOD to 13952 (13.9 seconds, a value determined in the 1980's, well before ISDN trunking) From a digital set, place the call to a menu. Let it answer. Do not dial anything for 13.9 seconds. Then dial a digit. See if your 'first' digit worked this time.

Now set the EOD to 4096. Do the same test, but wait only 4 seconds. Notice if your first digit now works in that shorter timer period.

You may find your menu does not let you wait so long, so you might have to set the EOD to even less to prove the test works.






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[hhallett]

GHTROUT is correct. In fact, I think I'd be hard pressed to find an instance when he was not.

Anyway, the EOD timers matter because an outgoing connection from a digital telephone is considered established only after the end of dialing time is elapsed. The shorter the time the sooner the system considers a call established.

Alternatively, as ACEWARLOCK mentioned, an outgoing call can be established immediately by pressing the octothorpe (#) after the last digit is dialed. This basically says "I'm done dialing".

You've said that you've heard DTMF tones from a digital set on an analog set that you've called. Did you make those calls EXT to EXT or by dialing out and back in again to the other phone?

I ask because if you didn't make the call by dialing out and back in again to the other phone to hear the DTMF then it occurs to me that you might have an End-to-End Signaling (EES) issue on outbound calls.

Regards,
Harry
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[OrangeMonkey]

Guys, Thank you for the explanations of the timers. I will try to test your theories and announce the results.

 

[OrangeMonkey]

OK, Changing the timers did not make any difference. But let me tell you what I did change. I found this on another thread on DTMF issues. I used ld 15 and changed EEST to NO This is the End to End Signaling Tone to originating party. When I call ext to ext I can hear the DTMF tones from the digital phone. When I call an outside automated menu I can tell the tones are working with each key press but I don't hear the tones.
If I change the EEST to YES but make DTMF NO I can still hear the tones correctly ext to ext but I don't hear them making an outside call to an automated menu. But I know each key produces the desired tone by the reaction of the menu.
If I change EEST to YES and DTMF to YES I hear a slight click when I press a key and then a tone the second time I press a key. This happens ext to ext and on an outside menu.

So I have a working system if I make EEST NO (default). However when I do this I don't get an option to change DTMF. And when I print the CDB with ld 21 DTMF is not listed when EEST is NO.

So is it standard to NOT hear the tones on a digital phone? Or is there another way to hear the DTMF feedback?

Again... thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[GHTROUT]

Excellent! I'm glad you got it going!

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[hhallett]

If I'm reading your post correctly it sounds like you've found your problem.

So is it standard to NOT hear the tones on a digital phone? Or is there another way to hear the DTMF feedback?

Standard? Well, I've seen it both ways. The defaults are no for both EEST and DTMF. It just depends upon what the customer wants.

For example, I'm currently servicing a customer whose Opt 81 is running Rls 19. This is from their CDB:
EEST YES
DTMF YES

All of their routes have the same EOT/ODT settings:
EOD 13952
ODT 4096

Whatever gets the job done with the least heartache is usually best in my opinion.

Regards,
Harry
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[OrangeMonkey]

HHALLETT,

Yes I guess you're right but it bothers me that I can't make it work the way it should. What would cause the click in place of the tone every other time I press a key? Is there another element involved here? I'll probably revisit this some day.