Two brand new Desktop PC's have same Win7 licence key 3

[1DMF]

Hi,

We have just bought two Lenovo ThinkCentre Pc's.

As part of my audit, I keep track of serial numbers and software license keys.

I have ran keyfinder on both machines and they report the same OEM license key.

Is this normal, if not, what is Lenovo playing at?

We have specifically bought Win 7 Pro installed (downgraded) machines, and expect to get genuine, unique license keys for the software, so a wipe and re-install can be performed if required.

Should I be concerned?

Thanks,
1DMF

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

>the mobo fries, I will replace it with what is available

You will, however, technically be in breach of your OEM licence, whether you like it or not. Here's Microsoft's statement on exactly this issue:

Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same licence? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the licence for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the licence of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty.

>MS can bite me if they think I'm buying another copy of the OS

<sigh> The reason the OEM version is cheap is because of this sort of limitation (and most of the limitations exist because of the way the OEM software support model is expected to work). Want freedom to reinstall? Buy the full retail version instead.

 

[1DMF]

OEM cheap? Last time I checked eBuyer it's £110.00 for OEM 7 Pro, my student Ultimate cost £50.00, and the only retail they have is 8.1 & NCR Win 7 for embedded systems - what ever that is?

Trying to obtain OS / hardware freedom while legitimately purchasing and using Windows 7 is not a 'user friendly' experience for I.T. when the company won't pay for MS volume / open licencing!

The boss sometimes will buy a cheap laptop with Windows Home on it, I then have to buy another copy of Windows Pro so it will connect to the domain and have to contend with the stupid BIOS key that regardless of the version of the disk you have it re-installs the version based on the BIOS key, so I spend hours creating boot USB and editing a PID.txt file and changing BIOS settings, just to install Windows that we've technically paid for twice.

Want freedom to reinstall? Buy the full retail version instead.

I have student Windows Ultimate at home and still spent hours on the stupid MS activation hotline just to be cut off while trying to activate it because it won't accept my license key on re-install. Go round the houses get passed to real MS people, not call centre guy, they remotely connect to the machine and run special activation software, and I specifically checked with them giving them my key code, that this is a student full version of Ultimate that can be moved from PC to PC, which they confirmed while activating.

Only to have my Phoenix blade SSD die on me weeks later, so I had to replace it with a Samsung XP941 M.2 SSD, and took 5 phone calls, keep being cut off halfway through call, to have to ring back and go through the same thing with call centre guy before you get passed to real MS support. MS licencing drives me insane at home or at work!

So sorry if I seem a little unhappy, it just really frustrates me, I've bought the software legitimately, even sometimes technically twice, please just install and let me get a life!

If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created.

I said 'fried' mobo = defective. I am not talking upgrade for new technology or improvements, I'm talking purely damaged, broken, defective replacement. No <sigh> required, my statement still stands. If I have a mobo that dies and the model is no longer available I will replace it with what ever form factor / CPU socket, RAM type etc is compatible with the rest of the components to get the machine up and running again. Which I was under the impression from OEM and the snippet you posted, and direct discussion with MS activation support, this is still the case and as it should be, so therefore please can I have the code required to install the software I have purchased a licence to use should I need to.

Isn't this whole discussion a bit moot when you think that Windows 10 will be free and you can do a fresh install if a hard drive dies.

Really, I was under the impression that the free upgrade from 7/8/8.1 was only valid for a year, has this changed? If a fresh install can always be performed with no licence requirements, this and this alone is a reason to move to Windows 10. I didn't realise Windows 10 was moving to a no-charge OS.



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[cdogg]

1DMF,
I can certainly understand the frustration. Having a product key does give you the option to haggle with the Microsoft over their phone activation line when you have problems. However, just as I suspected above, other major manufacturers have started removing the COA sticker from newer models. I have a brand new HP Z230 workstation that was purchased with Windows 7 Pro installed. There is no COA sticker on the case. Looks like this may have started over a year ago on some models, as evidenced by this HP forum thread.

So while I can understand the need to vent, all I can say is that it's becoming the norm. Apparently we're all just going to have to learn to cope with it. You might get lucky if you search around for older models still for sale on the market that have the COA sticker, but it appears that's becoming harder and harder to find.

Not sure what OEM specific mobo you believe MSI, Gigabyte, Asus etc have sold me over the years

Actually, OEM here is referring to a 3rd-party system builder such as HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc., which are by definition Original Equipment Manufacturers. MSI and Gigabyte manufacture parts of the system, not complete systems. These would be the aftermarket motherboards I was referring to earlier. They would not have an OEM identifier embedded in the BIOS. Asus does both, so depending on what you were referring to from that company, it could be OEM or aftermarket.

As the others have said, you have other options to get around the issue. One, you can buy a retail version of Windows. This gives you the freedom to move that Windows installation from PC to PC. Or, your company can look into a volume license. Might be a bit on the expensive side for a small company, but I suggest you work with a Microsoft sales rep to see if they have a pricing model that works for your organization.


-Carl
"The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty: it's twice as big as it needs to be."

[tab][navy]For this site's posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[strongm]

>OEM cheap? Last time I checked eBuyer it's £110.00 for OEM 7 Pro

Amazon have full retail W7 Pro for £250. So yes, at less than half the price, OEM is cheap.

> the company won't pay for MS volume / open licencing!

Well, whhilst I understand your frustration at getting things to work as if they had done so, I'd suggest that it isn't entirely fair to lay the blame to blame at Microsoft's door for the ensuing issues.

 

[1DMF]

cdogg -> The ZooStorm purchased last week has a Gigabyte mobo (GA-H81M-DS2V), which was available at NovaTech :

http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/.../intelsocket1150/h81chipset/ga-h81m-ds2v.html

, but the product is already no longer available, I wish it was as cut and dry as you indicate.

I'm also not looking to move Windows from PC to PC, which is why you buy retail isn't it?

The same issues arise when you use upgrade licenses from Home -> Pro, to re-install Pro - you have to install Home and then re-upgrade, when common sense tells you that if you have a license to use Pro you should be able to install Pro and apply your Pro license, but that isn't the case and it's 100% MS who make it that way, there is no-one else to blame for this ridiculous scenario other than MS.

It's just something that really grinds my gears, and judging from the replies, you understand my pain, even if you are unsympathetic.

I am aware I cannot swim against the tide and appreciate venting isn't going to change anything, other than make me feel a little better!

<< crawls back under his rock, cursing MS!!!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[goombawaho]

I think this summarized the situation pretty well.

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1750769

So while I can understand the need to vent, all I can say is that it's becoming the norm. Apparently we're all just going to have to learn to cope with it. You might get lucky if you search around for older models still for sale on the market that have the COA sticker, but it appears that's becoming harder and harder to find.

I just bought one of these and it DOES have a Windows 7 COA on it. Of course it's not licensed for Windows 8 at all and thus is not a downgrade to Windows 7.
Link

The boss sometimes will buy a cheap laptop with Windows Home on it, I then have to buy another copy of Windows Pro so it will connect to the domain and have to contend with the stupid BIOS key that regardless of the version of the disk you have it re-installs the version based on the BIOS key, so I spend hours creating boot USB and editing a PID.txt file and changing BIOS settings, just to install Windows that we've technically paid for twice

So, based on this stupidity, you have to get rid of your boss. That is just "plumb dumb" behavior for an IT director. Now I understand why you have burr on your saddle.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[strongm]

>which is why you buy retail isn't it?

One of the reasons, yes. Another would be in order to get support direct from Microsoft. The OEM license only gets you support from the OEM, not Microsoft (although Microsoft will still sometimes accidentally provide support for OEM product they are absolutely not obliged to do so) And another reason would be to legitimately change your m/b without any quibbles ... ;-) And you can give or sell your retail copy to someone else.

 

[1DMF]

To be honest, part of the problem is the way the company has grown.

From 4 employees with PC's and servers built and maintained by myself as a registered system builder for the company.

To now 30+ with having had several CEO's over it's history, 14 years later, with various laptops in the field, and 20+ strong team in the office with desktops, I need to make a case for moving to a better licencing structure.

I have approached the CEO about this before, as well as reiterated, "don't buy it if it hasn't got Windows PRO!", but when he see's a migration cost far outweighing £300.00 now for a cheap desktop, the I.T. department has just grown by another in-appropriate piece of equipment. I can make it work, but it's a headache.

It's good the company is growing, but I need to change some of the company's I.T. acquisitioning habits and usage, as keeping on top of all the convoluted OS installs is becoming impossible if we are to no longer be provided with a key that can be easily used to re-install a machine.

The whole re-installing when used as a hand-me-down, as a senior manager's get the shiny new one, not the new member of staff, it's a pain, not to mention having grown to a size where there is a tiny proportion of "staff turn-around", which is to be expected, but added to the re-install nightmare.

Keeping track of licencing to perform a full reset on each machine is becoming a real chore, with a mish-mash of full & upgraded licences or a bypassed BIOS.

Perhaps you can advise on the best way to get a handle on this as it would be much appreciated.

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

Volume licensing (play with the licensing advisor to find out which model may best suit you) and a Key Management Server (KMS)

 

[1DMF]

Thanks Mike.

Tool doesn't work in FireFox <sigh>

Having ran a couple of quick quote scenarios, it would seem to have full Windows OS & Office, License + Assurance for @ 35 users would cost in the region of £10,000+ per year.

Even with a turnover of 10 staff a year and buying a new PC every-time loaded with Windows OEM & Office Home & Business at @ £600.00 is still cheaper!

Not sure how I'm going to sell that to the boss!



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

Erm ... use the Guided Quote option. The 'Quick Quote' restricts your options significantly (in particular it only generally offers subscription pricing, rather than ownership, and insists on adding software assurance). Still won't be as cheap as buying OEM versions, of course - but I wasn't trying to provide the cheapest purchase price. As you say:

>Even with a turnover of 10 staff a year and buying a new PC every-time loaded with Windows OEM & Office Home & Business at @ £600.00 is still cheaper

But of course, the purchase price is not the only cost. For example, how much do you think all your time costs in trying to resolve the various headaches that these cheap, limited versions have caused?

 

[1DMF]

The quote for 35 Windows + Office for 3 years subscription came in @ £17,255.00 , 3 years ownership came in @ £32,655.00

Looks like the headache will probably continue, and the only funding I'll get is for a packet of paracetamol!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

>3 years ownership came in @ £32,655.00

Something not right there. I suspect you are looking at the wrong license program


With the guided quote, I get a one-off payment of £16,531.20 (see attached file)

 

[1DMF]

Dunno I just walked through the Guided Quote Wizard, answering the question choosing to own Windows & Office over 3 years?






"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

I suspect that you've managed to tack on Software Assurance

 

[1DMF]

Nope, was ghosted out and not an option when you select 3 years? Either way, it's still going to make the CEO cough!



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

Ah, you may not have selected it, but it may still have been applied depending on later options (basically by opting into the Open Value Organization Wide Program). I can recreate your exact cost. But examine the quote carefully and you'll see that Software Assurance has been added (even though, exactly like you, I did not select it because it was greyed out)

>Either way, it's still going to make the CEO cough!
Fair enough

 

[edfair]

I'm late to the show but does the company have a policy of new computers for new emplayees? Seems like some standardization and a cloned standard installation might be a better option where the new employee gets a fresh install on an older machine.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[cdogg]

I didn't have much luck figuring out the tool myself, but when I messed around with several options my price came out to $84 per workstation per year (of course, that's in US currency and doesn't include Office). I think the best approach is to work with a sales rep instead of trying to figure out that tool. Seems like you need a certification to understand it!



Ed,
Yes, using cloned installations is helpful when the hardware you support are bought in signifcant numbers and end up being similar configurations. However, without a sophisticated system to manage the images like SCCM, that might be counterproductive in the OP's situation, where they have a quote "mish-mash" of PC brands/models. But I totally agree with you from a general standpoint!

 

[1DMF]

Something isn't right, as I spoke with the missus last night, she has OL Office for 50+ users! and when I told her the cost, for 35 even she choked, however, she only has OL for Office and my quote included Windows, but still, things seem a little expensive.

I've asked her to put me in touch with her licensing contact and I'll see if I get get a quote from them.

Yes a corporate standardised image would be a good idea, but with so many different makes / model and specification of device, 'one driver fits all', would no doubt BSD if installed.

Unless it's possible to have a default windows install, including corporate generic applications, without loading any system device drivers until image install?

>> does the company have a policy of new computers for new employees?

Depends, as mentioned, if a long service member of staff or manager is in line for a new computer, then a new member of staff can be the catalyst for them to receive an upgrade, and the new member of staff gets the hand-me-down.

Alternatively, if everyone is happy and a new member of staff join, they get the new machine, which I prefer because it's far less hassle for me having to set up a new PC rather than, wiping an old one and having to re-install it as well as set up the new PC.

I've even had to perform multiple in-house computer swaps, because office politics dictates that so-and-so should have the more powerful computer as what they do is more important and there isn't a budget to simply buy them a new one!

All good fun, which MS licensing makes a nightmare!


"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music