Twist on Email Peeking 4

[Kjonnnn]

I was just in another part of the building when a supervisor motioned for me to come over ... real secretive like.

The supervisor has an employee who's last day is tomorrow. The employee resigned last week and is going back to school. The employee has been working half days this week. The supervisor wanted me to come back in about a hour (1p - after the employee is gone) and log into the computer and leave it on, so she can come behind me and look in the employee's email.

I told her, its no secret password. Our IDs follow the same pattern for ID and passwords and that she could just do it herself.

I understand monitoring and all, and making employees don't abuse the system. But the has already resigned, had her exit interview and sign all the paperwork. There's a party for her tomorrow.

At this point, the supervisors motives seem shady to me.

What do you think?

 

[lionelhill]

Well, I'll read anything, myself, provided it's good. Sherlock's great, and so is GK Chesterton, much underrated.

Seriously, it seems to me that there are two morally legitimate possibilities:

(1) the supervisor needs to look at employee's e-mail for proper work purposes, in which case they can do it in the company-correct way (whatever that is). If you have doubts about them on that side, you can take it one step further up the management chain and check with their supervisor that this is in order. If it is, no one should be anoyed with you: all you are doing is ensuring company security operates properly.

(2) Alternative is the supervisor is trying to screen the about-to-leave employee from the consequences of something they've done. In this case supervisor should not have any problems with employee being present at the time the e-mail gets looked at.

Anything else is very shady and I personally think you would do well to stay clear. Sleipnir's right, whatever the reason, the finger will point back to you if you log on.

Unfortunately there are people in this world who are just snoopers with odd fixations.

 

[Kjonnnn]

All true. The employee leaves today at noon. The supervisor could easily just wait til this afternoon and read to her heart's contents.

The supervisor is a woman in her late 30s. The positions she hires for are usually entry level clerk type positions, and she usually hires very young ladys (right outta high school types) She and her employee(s) usually end up in some "good girlfriend" type friendship (lunch, weekend get togethers) and then BAMMMM she switches to BOSS and you can tell something happend and their not a chummy anymore. I have seen it with every one of her employees. So the supervisor and the employee havent been as tight lately as they usually are. So something has "went down" between them I think. What it is ... I dont care, but I don't want my prints on this.

 

[flapeyre]

Kjonnnn--

First, I would inform her supervisor (the supervisor's supervisor, that is) of her subordinate's snooping request. Ask if this is kosher.

I'd refuse to crack or reset the employee's e-mail (unless ordered to by someone higher up than the requestor). Sound like the supervisor is abusing her authority.

As an aside, were I the departing employee, I would clean out any items of a personal nature from my e-mail (and also from the deleted items folder) before I left. Maybe they could get something from a backup or something, but I would not make it easy for them. Business stuff, they can look at all they want.

Of course, we really shouldn't be sending personal e-mails on the company system at all, should we?


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[smedvid]

As a third party observer, it appears that there is more to the story. Perhaps there was a personal romatic relationship between the departing employee and supervisor. I've seen it before over the years, most likely why some companies do not encourage inter-company dating. Also, I would try to get any requests to view or crack email in writing (or email) to have proper authorization. If you did access someone's email without proper authorization, regardless of a verbal request, you are still responsibile. It could cost you your employment.


Steve Medvid
"IT Consultant & Web Master"

http://www.saveourfarm.com

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[Tarwn]

I dunno, I try to be nice when I stop working with a company/specific computer and I blow it out when I am done. Partially to get rid of email/browser history etc and partly just because I'm bad about installing software and forgetting it's there, so it's just easier for them to start with a clean slate...
Heck the last laptop I gave up had an accidental dual boot 2000 pro/2000 server that were sharing files across each other. I just figured it was nicer to give it to them without that confusion


_{01000111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100101 01100101 00111111}

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The never-completed website

 

[GlenJohnson]

Tarwn, when I left the IT department, took my hard drive and ram with me.



Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting
MCP W2K
glen@johnsoncomputers.us

http://www.johnsoncomputers.us

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[Rhys666]

Not wanting to debate the rights and wrongs of it, having seen several threads disappear on this subject, but in the EU, what is being requested by your supervisor is illegal, and cases of this nature have been ruled for in the courts of the UK and several other countries, and in all those cases the rights of the employee have been upheld in that an employer is not allowed unrestricted access to an employees email, just as they would not be allowed to open all snail mail sent to them in their place of employment if the employee is the sole named person on the letter.
Basically the EU convention on human rights, and another piece of legislation as well I think, state that an emploeyee is entitled to private communications in the work place. Yes, these laws do also defend the rights of the employer should they have genuine concerns regarding said communication, but they cannot simply access an employees email account and read all email that is there.

Again though, I really don't want to debate this one, not because I don't have an opinion or can't, but because a number of threads have ben pulled due to some people simply not being able to stop their opinions becomming aggressive, and due to the threads going way off track when this has occured. Just thought you might like to know...

Rhys

Be careful that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming the other way.

 

[Grenage]

"Basically the EU convention on human rights, and another piece of legislation as well I think, state that an emploeyee is entitled to private communications in the work place"

Not so, thats for the company to decide. And if the company policy you have signed says they can look at whatever they like, they really can look at whatever you like.

 

[Rhys666]

You're wrong. This is Law, not for the company to decide, look it up if you don't believe me.

Under EU law an employee is entitled to private communications whilst at work, whether that be by phone or email. Just as a company couldn't get you to sign a piece of paper sayiing 'You may kill me if I misuse my email', and then kill you if you did and get away with it, they cannot negate the Law by getting you to sign something as you describe.

This law has been tested in several EU countries, and I believe has always been upheld in favor of the employee.

Rhys

Be careful that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming the other way.

 

[strongm]

Individual EU member states can, under certain circumstances, pass legislation that modifies this. In the UK, for example, thanks to RIP Grenage is essentially correct.

 

[Rhys666]

Technically, he both is and isn't.

Although they may find a way to legitimately monitor email, if it's private and personal and does not directly damage the business in question, and is not in itself obscene or illegal they cannot so much as mention it, (let alone act on it in any way), as to do so would be in breach of the employee's human rights, illegal, and leave the company open to court action and probably a compensation claim they could do without.

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care if a company who employs me monitors my email or not, personal or otherwise. I only have issues should they attempt to make use of any information gained from emails that were private, or record or discuss that information elsewhere.

Rhys

Be careful that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming the other way.

 

[strongm]

You're moving the goalposts here, you know...

 

[Rhys666]

S'because even though I'm fairly sure I was correct in the first place I don't have the time or patience to track down my evidence of such. I had done it before for several threads, but unfortunately contentious issues encourage red-flagging by people not prepared to listen to the opinion of others even if they don't accept it.

I don't want things to descend into an argument over opinion of the facts of employment law in the UK, and EU, in general. Given that I'm not going to quantify my opinions I'm happy to step back from them a little and accept that, without evidence to the contrary, what someone else says may actually be correct and I'll happily debate the point from there.

I have a great deal of respect for peoples opinions on this site, and have no wish for this thread to descend into farse, and petty argument over something like this, and it does happen. The thread'll only get pulled if that happens and then we all lose out.

Rhys

Be careful that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming the other way.

 

[greyted]

I have a great deal of respect for peoples opinions on this site, and have no wish for this thread to descend into farse, and petty argument over something like this, and it does happen. The thread'll only get pulled if that happens and then we all lose out.

Well said Rhys666, I do remember the threads you have mentioned. Actually participated in them and it does seem rather unfortunate to see a very good discussion RF because one or two members of our community reach the point of no return, anger then takes control.

<rant>
There was a thread that I personally RF the other day when one member actually used profanities to a fellow TT member.
Do these people not realise that people use this superb site from their homes; consequently women, children and persons who dislike such language can be present when viewing these pages.
</rant>


Ted

&quot;The difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell into the Thames, it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out again, that would be a calamity.&quot;
Benjamin Disraeli.

 

[lionelhill]

This e-mail privacy thing comes up quite a bit, and raises some pretty hairy questions.
Which of these is going to make a school IT system look worse in the Saturday newspapers?
(1) intruding on the privacy of a teacher's use of school equipment to exchange photographs by e-mail for their private interest during their free time, or (2) providing a teacher with state-funded equipment so they can distribute porn...

It's a tricky one? This being an ethics forum, I'd go for ethically correct rather than legally correct, but it's a personal choice.

Huge thanks to everyone (esp. greyted, Rhyss) who is managing to keep this debate polite and excercise restraint with that censorus red flag!

 

[GwydionM]

My computer at work relates to work and it's reasonably enough that employers can see what you do with it. Personal stuff can be done from home or an internet cafe. A reasonable employer won't object to a bit of personal stuff, as with phones. But what you say on the phone is hardly private.