To frame or not to frame? 4

engcomp · Jun 12, 2001

I often see the advice NOT to use frames. Is this advice outdated or are there still valid reasons for it?

Personally, I like frames because my menu of links (in the left margin) is stationary while the main page is being scrolled.

I use a dark background for the menu area and a white background for the main page. Consequently, the link colours are different in these two areas. No problem with frames because each area uses a different style sheet.

The same two-colour effect can be created with tables. In this case, the menu scrolls with the page. Now I have only one style sheet. How can I set up different link styles on the one page - (i) standard where the background is white; and (ii) non-standard where the background is dark?

You help is very much appreciated.

yahve · Jul 3, 2001

Friends don't let friends use frames ;-)

engcomp · Jul 4, 2001

Thank you, yahve, because I dropped frames as a result of all the comments on this question. However, I feel that most of the comments have come from antiquity (3 years ago?) and are no longer valid. I am grateful for the comments, I respect what they convey, and I have a suspicion that frames are the future.

shmmeee · Jul 4, 2001

Just to add to this: Although many of the technical issues of using frames (search engines etc.) have been solved I, and every web surfer I've spoken to, think that sites with frames in look ugly and remind me of a geocities site. I'm sure there are people out there who think differently but I've never met anyone who thinks that sites without frames are ugly (because they haven't got frames, not because of bad design). My point is that frames turn off a lot of people so if you can achieve what you want without them then I'd say do so.

yahve · Jul 11, 2001

Hi engcomp,

. I am grateful for the comments, I respect what they convey, and I have a suspicion that frames are the future.

Well, they might be your futur, but I'm not sure that they are in the W3C's futur:

(from:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#version-info

)

HTML 4.01 specifies three DTDs, so authors must include one of the following document type declarations in their documents. The DTDs vary in the elements they support.

The HTML 4.01 Strict DTD includes all elements and attributes that have not been deprecated or do not appear in frameset documents. For documents that use this DTD, use this document type declaration: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

The HTML 4.01 Transitional DTD includes everything in the strict DTD plus deprecated elements and attributes (most of which concern visual presentation). For documents that use this DTD, use this document type declaration: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

The HTML 4.01 Frameset DTD includes everything in the transitional DTD plus frames as well. For documents that use this DTD, use this document type declaration: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.

Now, if they don't include frames in their strict DTD, one might assume that eventually, just as with deprecated elements, they will disappear. Maybe they won't, but since they're pushing CSS for positioning, maybe there will be one less reason to use frames.

Bye.

yahve · Jul 11, 2001

Hi again,

BTW, the same holds true for XHTML, see

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#docconf

Bye.

engcomp · Jul 11, 2001

WOW - totally over my head but makes me glad I dropped frames.

Thank you very much, Helmut

http://www.engs-comp.com/

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To frame or not to frame? 4

engcomp

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yahve

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engcomp

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shmmeee

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yahve

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yahve

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engcomp

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