Tlaxcala's Manifesto 1

[TheRambler]

Last February 21st, a group of translators and cyberactivists published The Tlaxcala's Manifesto.

All languages of the world must, and do contribute to the brotherhood of mankind. Contrary to what many people used to believe, a language is not only a grammatical structure, a set of interconnected words, in agreement with a syntactic code, but also, and especially, a creation of meaning based upon our senses. Thus we observe, interpret and express our world from a specific personal, geographical and political context. Because of this, no language is neutral, and they all carry the “genetic code”, the imprint of the cultures to which they belong....

An empire and its language always go together and are predators by definition. They reject otherness....

In our days, the imperial power is based in the United States of America, whose official language is English...

What is your impression about it? (I hope you read most of it).

Understanding English has given me the chance to communicate with "strange" people whose native language was not English, from continents far away from America. This site is like a bridge over the digital gap, which I cross back and forth every day, so learning English was maybe the best I did. Why not? I don't have to advocate US politics, and hope to keep this thread more related to language.

 

[sleipnir214]

My first impression is that the authors (and, I guess, signatories) ordered a little too much whine with their meals.

My second impression is that of underwhelmedness. Yet another self-appointed group of self-declared experts is decrying on the internet self-defined imperialism.

Yawn.



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[sleipnir214]

My third impression is to ask the question, "Who would benefit most from the end of any 'imperialist' lingua franca?"

Professional translators.



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[chiph]

I think the activists are wrong in that they're assuming there's a Central English Authority (the CEA) in charge of the language.

That's not the case -- as James D. Nicoll said:

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.

Chip H.

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[Stella740pl]

sleipnir214,

I can't resist.
What was that substance an excess of which the authors ordered with their meals?

 

[sleipnir214]

whine


Pun intended.



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[Dollie]

[sarcasm]Didn't the English language start in England? Why not blame them? It's their fault anyway![/sarcasm]

I think the word "imperialist" really stuck in my craw and won't jolt loose. Imperialist has connotations that I just cannot resolve with the United States.

The English language was not forced on anyone. Other countries began picking it up long ago because of tourism. Ever been to Cancun? It always appears that there are more English speakers than spanish. After becoming fluent in the language, many foreign countries utilize, adapt, and adopt the English language. It's become a universal language that (IMO) quite a bit of the world can speak.

I find it funny that with all the complaining they do about the English "law" imposed on foreign countries, THE ARTICLE IS IN ENGLISH.

I really shouldn't go on about how I really feel about the rest of the article as it doesn't go along with the intended subject of this thread. However, it should be up to the various countries to keep their native dialect alive, and certainly not up to the quite opinionated group wanting to take that directive.

 

[sleipnir214]

Dollie:
Just keep in mind that to folk like the ones publishing the manifesto, imperialist means, "successful nations I don't like".


All:
Since we're on the subject of imperialism, aren't the Phillipines and Puerto Rico (cited in the manifesto) bad examples of U.S. Imperialism?

Politically, one is an independent nation and the other could be if a majority of its people wanted to be.

Linguistically, all official business in Puerto Rico takes place in Spanish, not English. And the Philipines have Filipino and Ensligh (in that ordera) as official languages.

I mean, if they were serious students of politics, they could have found much better examples. Pretty much any randomly-chosen First Nations group would be a better one.



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[Dollie]

Something I forgot to mention (that the authors of the article forgot to mention as well):

The official language of the state of Texas is..... Spanish.

 

[Trevoke]

It's .. Interesting. I do wonder why they consider the english language to be imperalized.. When if any language is throned of the sort, it's the french language (although its hold on the throne is vacillating), since it's the official language of the UN, of the Olympics...

I do agree with the very beginning : no language is neutral. Every language reflects different ways to think about / understand the world and people.. The best way to realize this is to find a word that doesn't exist in another language.

The italian word 'prepotente' for instance doesn't exist in french, although the english word 'obnoxious' is a pretty good synonym for it. Why?

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[IknowMe]

many foreign countries utilize, adapt, and adopt the English language. It's become a universal language that (IMO) quite a bit of the world can speak.

Was just discussing this with my wife last night while watching the Olympics. A substantial amount of athletes from foreign (foreign for me is all but USA) countries are providing very competent interviews in English with the US media.

If anyone could comment I'm curious to hear how well American athletes fair in a non English media. Sharing borders with Mexico and Canada, there are quite a few Americans who can speak French or Spanish but I wonder how we fair in other languages.

An empire and its language always go together and are predators by definition. They reject otherness....

In our days, the imperial power is based in the United States of America, whose official language is English...

Does this mean my learning of spanish was an attempt to undermine the alleged "Imperial Power" of the USA and promote otherness??? I guess I aught be hanged for high treason.

Personally I think learning additional languages is very empowering regardless of the language learned. I also think it helps to promote good will and tolerance between all us Earthlings.

 

[Turkbear]

Hi,
Well we could start using Esperanto...





To Paraphrase:"The Help you get is proportional to the Help you give.."

 

[Trevoke]

And by the way, if you go to the homepage of tlaxcala, you can find the same manifesto in other languages (after clicking on the language you want).. So I guess at least they're spreading their word in lots of languages.

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[Chacalinc]

you know, IMHO on "why is english used as an international language" is just a USA history result. How? simple (my point of view), all technology grows faster when there is a war than not, and as you all people knows, USA is *always* in a war (you like it or not) so if you think about that, lots of technologies born in USA, including internet! computers, processors, weapons, airplanes (both commercial and military) and so on. So USA is selling their technology (and product of course) to the world and (first) all manuals are written in english! so USA is more attracted to create (and sell) technology than learn another language and we, as buyers, need to adapt somehow to our providers and to learn enclgihs is a good differentiator to a worker (as me for example, I speak spanish and I'll be prefered instead someone who do't speak english, just because my english is better than others, and my english is not good!)

So, after (trying to) tell you my opinion, I don't think that the USA case is imperialism, is just the reult of the history.

Just one question for you guys/gals: what is the language more spoken in the world: english or chinesse? (in the context of number of people than speak the language)

Cheers.

Chacal, Inc.

 

[GwydionM]

First, would US citizens please remember where English actually comes from.

Of cource English people should remember it is just an offshoot of West-Germanic, one of many derivatives.

English got its role thanks to Britain's 18th century dominance, and the lack of a consistent challenger in the 20th century.

------------------------------
An old man who lives in the UK

 

[blutekhnd]

I have a hard time taking manifestos seriously, especially when they have false information in them. The U.S. does not have an official language. There have been discussions about making English the official language, but at the moment it is not. Some people want it to be English so that the government would be forced to put larger amounts of money into teaching ESL classes to immigrants.

 

[strongm]

>English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary



I wasn't really aware of James D. Nicoll before - but I think I love him now ...

 

[IknowMe]

First, would US citizens please remember where English actually comes from.

No intend to offend here Gwy.

The only reference I see here in regards to the
Roots of all "English" Pun intended,
was Dollie's sarcasm (which I thought was pretty clever btw

 

[BoxHead]

From the US (IMHO)

English has certainly toured the world in the name of conquest ("The sun never sets on the British Empire"), but I think that personifying a language as a predator is ludicrous.

Please remember that whenever the US goes to war for the advancement of technology, the first thing we do is "withdraw all diplomatic and humanitarian personnel". Those would be the English-speaking predators working on trade agreements, vaccines, and starvation issues.

The Gates Foundation has $5.7 billion dollars in grants for fighting developing-world diseases. Oprah Winfrey's foundation is establishing a series of Academies throughout South Africa to educate the females who are currently not being educated because they are females. I work with a group of local business owners on getting safe, clean drinking water to parts of the world that need it.

A lot of this will be communicated in English. The money may be better spent on language classes for middle-income teens in the US.

Sorry, but it really bothers me to see that sort of rhetoric disguised as linguistic sophistication.


John







When Galileo theorized that Aristotle's view of the Universe contained errors, he was labeled a fool.
It wasn't until he proved it that he was called dangerous.

 

[jebenson]

The official language of the state of Texas is..... Spanish.

No, it is not. Texas has no official state language, although English and Spanish hold de facto "official" status. In the mid-nineteenth century until about World War I or so all state documents were printed in English, Spanish and...German. Texas has a large population of descendants of German immigrants, and numerous towns with Germanic names like Greune, Pflugerville, New Braunfels and Niederwald. State documents are now printed in English. However, to my knowledge, there has never been an "official" state language.

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