Time Frame To install 30,000 stations

[learn2shoot]

Yes you read that correctly - 30 thousand phones.

I am a contractor at a client site and may need to install 30,000 Avaya phones. I wanted to get a few ideas on how long this would take, this time frame would need to include programming the station (assuming a dup sta), unwrapping the phone, placing the phone, establishing a connection and assigning a number and removing old phone and tossing it into a tub/dumpster.

This is spread over 40 sites ranging in size from 6 seats to over 6200 seats. I am putting together a project plan and need to at least throw out a few figures for date frames. How many people would it take to install and spot test 6,200 phones in a weekend? I could stage phones all week but the placement would likely need to be done on a weekend.

Do you by chance know how many 9620s fit on a pallet?

 

[Mitch672]

you are asking the wrong questions. Who is seting up the data networking and network switches, because, that will be your problem. Also, IP phones take 8-10 minutes to upgrade their firmware, each.

We did a job with 300 IP phones, the client setup and patched all of the POE connections and provided the POE switches. We where there for a week, getting issues resolved.

not only do you need to unbox the phones, you need to break down the cardboard, and bring it out to a dumpster, usually. If it is an existing site, you need to dig through all of the garbage in peoples cubicles, to find the outlets, and then you are stopped when you find it doesn't have a POE port activated.

There are lots of issues, it's very difficult to assia numbeng of minutes per phone, until you actually evaluate the conditions at each site, and how well that site has been prepared. Greenspace is much easier than existing, for example.




Mitch

AVAYA Certified Expert

 

[leftyx]

Also are you just replacing an existing phone or programming from scratch? Even if all the programming is done for the phone, by changing the set type you might still have to change a button or two.

Congrats to you though on landing a nice size job!

 

[learn2shoot]

I am assuming that the stations are programmed and the network is established weeks or months in advance, then earlier that week have a few techs go through the site and spot check a few desks to ensure the https server can be located and that the phones do indeed come-up.

The day(s) of have teams of four people- one person unpacking/breaking down placing the phone on the desk. A second person rooting under the desk and plugging it into the CAT5 jack, a third person coming around 10 minutes later and entering the assigned desk number. In the event of a single desk having an issue, then the fourth person would be chasing down these few issues. Hopefully this person would not have much and be able to help where needed. They would go up one side of the floor and down the other floorplan in hands.

Another question how many stations will the system handle (assuming a S87xx with whatever CM is the newest)

 

[learn2shoot]

We are moving from a 5e onto Avaya. So all the programming is done from scratch.

 

[learn2shoot]

BTW I found that 100 9620s fit on a single skid.

 

[Textron68]

If your going from traditional TDM to IP, the phones on the desk can co-exist during setup. Having the phones already placed, tested and ready to go come time to test and turnup the trunking. Than sweep through and remove old equipment. During staging have a POE 24 or 48 port Switch set up to upgrade firmware before the phone hits the desk. Staging aprox 15min per X amount of phones depending on switch capacity. You can break down boxes and unpack the next set while the first phones are getting updates. Setting aprox 10 min per person/per phone (some phones take 2min to place, others may take 15min to place depending on enviornment) add 10%-15% to total for troubleshooting. Add an additional 5min per phone for final sweep to collect and pack/trash old equipment. Depending on crew experience it could go faster or slower.

 

[evoguy]

One thing you have to take into consideration are the phones that will arrive DOA. Are they any spares if this happens for a couple. We just sent back 4 9620's with problems ranging headset not working to handsfree not working.

 

[learn2shoot]

@evo - 4 out of how many?

I was thinking of asking the vendor to goodwill us 150 or so (1/2%) for inevitable failures. Would this be enough?

 

[Textron68]

I recommend 2%-3% with the vendor being responsible for bench testing 1 of every 100 before delivery. That should reduce the possibility of getting a bad run in your shipment.

 

[98Converter]

You should plan at least a week (maybe 2) to site survey and ensure all the extensions on the existing phones are indeed what they're labeled...

Also keep in mind, if you plan to do the pre-install during business hours, some folks just don't like to be bothered so you'll need to build that into your time as well. Then there's physical building stuff to think about - locked offices, locked spaces, wall phones, etc... If you don't have access to those - that will take time as well. And wall phones with new brackets will take time as well. Have you ensured all the offices have a 'spare' cat-5 ethernet drop and that it works?

For 6200 phones in one office, I would plan at least (2) weeks (2-4) guys to get the phones unpacked, assembled, and updated with the latest Firmware (this also includes time to remove all the packing/cardboard). And then at least (4) weeks with 4-6 guys just to get the phones pre-staged and at an "Enter Extension" prompt on the desks... To do the firmware updating I would recommend building a private LAN that has a DHCP and HTTP server with at a minimum (1) 48 Port PoE switch. This will improve efficiency. Lastly in this section - you may need to consider weight if the pallets are being stored in a building above ground level.

To Mitch672's point - how are they registering to CM? That could be sticking point... But maybe not your concern.

In my experience for site installs (by 1 person) to get extensions registered onto 96XX phones:

0-40 takes 12+/- hours (1 Day)
40-80 takes 24+/- hours (2 Days)
80-100 takes 30+/- hours (2 1/2 Days)
100+ takes 48+/- hours (4 Days)
200+ takes 96+/- hours (8 Days)
500+ takes 300+/- hours (25 Days)
1000+ takes 600+/- hours (50 Days)
5000+ takes 3000+/- hours (250 Days)
10000+ takes 6000+/- hours (500 Days)

You can do the math with increasing the workforce.

I'm sure there's a lot more - but this is a start...

Honestly, IMO - you may be in over your head with this task. A typical installation <100 is relatively simple. But once you get over 100 phones (if you're not familiar with all the details), you're just setting yourself up for failure and missed deliverable dates and possibly non-consideration for future projects. And of course if you come up short on your estimate - could cost you huge dollars.

Hope this helps.



Thanks,
98C

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. ARISTOTLE 384-322 B.C.

 

[cribbageman]

I think I so see one missing element and that is the assumption is that everything is going IP. I know it's almost a for-gone conclusion these days, but I didn't see any indication of type of set is being deployed.

Traditional TDM set/place/test is different in scope and amount of work required vs IP

Perhaps they are, but I didn't see that there was a breakdown. As far as the vendor "goodwilling" 150 sets, they may, but I doubt it. Keep in mind that once a box has been opened, it's unreturnable.

6200 sets in one weekend? All in one location, or multiple locations? Access (always a problem), staging, breakdown, moving tubs, etc etc etc,... BEST case and you had unlimited TRAINED resources that can think for themselves... and ALL there are doing is just place and test sets and discard the old, an even mix of TDM and IP..

Rough estimate of 135 people. 45 per shift starting at 5pm Friday and concluding 8am Monday. On top of that you need to calculate in people to orchestrate, the 100 other things that need to happen at the same time, for 'round the clock...

If you've never managed an install of this magnitude, or even 1/4 the size... as 98C said "you're heading for disaster". 100 station installs can head south very quickly, even for the experienced... been there/done that.

Congrats on a major win, but proceed with caution.
Plan, plan, plan and don't deviate. I'd recommend you hire a REAL consultant with experience in large scale implementations, who can assist you in formulating a plan that meets all the critical elements of the installation. In the long run, the additional costs for the experience is short money compared to the costs in aborting or failing an implementation under fire.

My 2 cents.

-Cribbageman, PMP

 

[SF0751]

I thought the same, but the last sentence on the first post of the thread is "Do you by chance know how many 9620s fit on a pallet?" and AFAIK 9620's are IP, not digital.

Susan
You can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

 

[cribbageman]

Yep. IP... missed it.

 

[learn2shoot]

Clearly I am begining to fully understand the magnitude of this implementation. I am part of a team of people planning this, and we have a significant pool we can draw from but the biggest site at 6200 would clearly need to be done over the course of a few weeks days.

One other thing I did find is that dup sta is NOT the way to go - apparently there is a template and script to create the stations enmass in about 1 hour. +/-

Yes we are looking to 9620 series IP phones which fit 100 to a pallet which is a big issue because we do not have space for 63 pallets at this location (yet another reason to stage this) The time frame for this project is quite long (longer than I imagined) (2013) and we are still early in the planning.

 

[Mitch672]

You can get AVAYA's "ProVision", you can create and modify stations "offline", you then connect to the switch and it can "push" any changes or additions fast than any human possibly could. ProVision is availble to AVAYA Business Partners.

If you are not fully deploying until 2013, the client will need to be flexable on the actual phone model to be used. AVAYA is already EOL'd (End Of Lifing) 9630 and 9640 IP phones, to be replaced by newer models, such as 9621G's and 9641Gs, etc. In 3 years, who knows what model phone will be out, and you will end up with a "mixed" bag of phones.



Mitch

AVAYA Certified Expert

 

[PBXTech]

I did an implementation of 3,000 IP sets over the course of a weekend (6-10 Friday night, 8-6 Sat/Sun). The key to it was during the week, the sets were unboxed, assembled, and plugged into the network via two PoE 24 port switches to get the phones' firmware over TFTP. This allowed us to see what sets were DOA and to save time placing the sets on the end users' desks and waiting for firmware updates. I’d say we had less than 0.2% DOA. Once that 'workup' was done, the sets were placed on carts and moved to the general area where they were getting installed. All 5 'set placement engineers' had a floor plan of what extension was to go where. The 'set placement engineers' would first place the sets, plug them in and walk away. They would go back around a second time, after placing/connecting all the sets in their specific area, and punch in the extension and passcode. This two loop approach saved time because the tech didn't stand there for an extra 30-45 seconds to let the phone boot up. Any troubles or issues were called in and resolved by the walkie-talkies we used.

 

[SF0751]

I think that another time save would be to have the cabling done ahead of time - desk to closet to POE switch. Have the end cable out and waiting, and a clear spot on the desk to place the phone set on.

Susan
You can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

 

[wildcard100001]

Learntoshoot, are you planning all 30k phones into 1 CM? What is your infrastructure strategy? Sorry to hijack your thread...it is along the same topic.

I'm working on much the same thing... 26k phones - global locations 75+ sites with 45 or so in US. I'm planning on building 3 or 4 Aura Cores (system manger, dual session managers, feature server, evolution servers and SBC's for PSTN SIP access. Where N. America locations link into the N. America core, Europe locations link into the Europe core, etc.. Cores are SIP linked together. Cores in data centers.

Phase 1 - Establish Aura core and link existing CM 5.2.1 installs. Upgrade to 5.2.1 and or integrate other Avaya locations (FCE model)into core. Front end disparate PBX locations with G450's. Phase 1 uses session manager to normalize dial plans, gives sites access to digit dial network and enables SIP PSTN access. This phase is rapidly deployed over a year or so. No phones just infrastructure setup and linking activities.

Phase 2 - Flip sites to Avaya site by site. 2 - 4 years for deployment. (Existing non Avaya sites are NEC, Mitel, Old Nortels, and a few others) Deploy phones and additional gateways/hardware if needed. (using core SIP trunks for remote DID numbers etc..)

I’m also really looking to use 1 HA voicemail system per Aura core.

My questions are.... is there a better way? How are others handling a global deployment?

Mitch672, do you have global customers? how do they approach a global deployment?

Anybody else?

Wildcard

 

[Mitch672]

wildcard, we do have some global clients, and they pretty much do what you have outlines (NA Core switch, European Core switch, etc)

we work in the financial industry,our clients have all AVAYA equipment, so we don't do much with Session Manager/SIP, other than some SIP trunking and Modular Messaging SIP integration. some have call recording as well with AES, etc.

We do have some clients with call centers as well, and they are using a single site as the hub, with agents in multiple locations, each location having its own PRI's (for local calls/dialin for customers). this lets them consolidate CMS reporting, agent liceneses, backups, etc.



Mitch

AVAYA Certified Expert