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Thermal solutions 4
- Thread starter no25
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More airflow thru the case. Directed across the cpu cooling device if possible.
There are more exotic methods.
You can't reduce the heat produced except by swapping parts. the best you can do is to keep it from damaging stuff.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
There are more exotic methods.
You can't reduce the heat produced except by swapping parts. the best you can do is to keep it from damaging stuff.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
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- #3
Fan cards don't work that well, so I wouldn't bother. The only fan card you need is a decent fan for your video card (if you are putting it under load).
The easiest way around it is to simple stick some case fans in. I recommend 4: One for the top, one for the rear, one for the side (near the top), and one for the front. All but the front should be blowing out, as the front lets cool air into the bottom of the case, while the rest such the hot air rising.
Some people will argue that more should be sucking in, but it is academic. I have done numerous tests and found have the front sucking it produces better airflow through the case.
Of course, adding fans may require some case modification. You will already probably have fans mounts in the front and back, so will need to remove a side and cut holes in them to add additional fans. If you don't want to remove the top and cut a hole it in, you can just place a fans on both sides of the case (close to the top).
If cutting cases sounds like too much hassle, you can always just go with one in the front and one in the back. Two fans is better than none.
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There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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The easiest way around it is to simple stick some case fans in. I recommend 4: One for the top, one for the rear, one for the side (near the top), and one for the front. All but the front should be blowing out, as the front lets cool air into the bottom of the case, while the rest such the hot air rising.
Some people will argue that more should be sucking in, but it is academic. I have done numerous tests and found have the front sucking it produces better airflow through the case.
Of course, adding fans may require some case modification. You will already probably have fans mounts in the front and back, so will need to remove a side and cut holes in them to add additional fans. If you don't want to remove the top and cut a hole it in, you can just place a fans on both sides of the case (close to the top).
If cutting cases sounds like too much hassle, you can always just go with one in the front and one in the back. Two fans is better than none.
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There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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Dito everyone!
Cool air in (lower front) Hot air out (rear back) at the very least, 2 additional 80mm case fans (very cheap, less than $4 each)
Remember a general rule is "the bigger the fan is, the quieter it will be, for a given CFM rating) so a 35CFM 90mm fan will be quieter than a 35CFM 80mm fan.
Obviously if you want to use your standard mounting points they are nearly always designed for 80mm fans.
Also remember that case fans help to cool everything inside the case by lowering internal temperatures overall (this is especially important in regard of hard drives, where a front lower fan can reduce HDD running temps considerably which definately improves reliability.
Bay fans tend to be good at cooling specific areas ie:graphics cards but aren't a solution in themselves.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
Cool air in (lower front) Hot air out (rear back) at the very least, 2 additional 80mm case fans (very cheap, less than $4 each)
Remember a general rule is "the bigger the fan is, the quieter it will be, for a given CFM rating) so a 35CFM 90mm fan will be quieter than a 35CFM 80mm fan.
Obviously if you want to use your standard mounting points they are nearly always designed for 80mm fans.
Also remember that case fans help to cool everything inside the case by lowering internal temperatures overall (this is especially important in regard of hard drives, where a front lower fan can reduce HDD running temps considerably which definately improves reliability.
Bay fans tend to be good at cooling specific areas ie:graphics cards but aren't a solution in themselves.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
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- #5
It seems that my pc has thermal related problems. After several hours of running it would just shut down instantly. I also noticed that hot air, much like a hair blower, is being produced by the power supply fans. This problem only came up when I installed a Geforce4 Ti4200. Are those case fans enough? I'm planning on having a front mounted fan near the bottom.
You havn't posted us with your setup details so it is hard to comment.
It could just be a case of the straw that broke the camels back! the extra heat produced by the new 4200Ti, plus the extra load on the PSU also creating more heat supplying the Ti, combine to make a just adequate cooling solution into an inadequate one.
You may need to look at a better CPU heatsink/fan as well as these additional case fans.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
It could just be a case of the straw that broke the camels back! the extra heat produced by the new 4200Ti, plus the extra load on the PSU also creating more heat supplying the Ti, combine to make a just adequate cooling solution into an inadequate one.
You may need to look at a better CPU heatsink/fan as well as these additional case fans.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
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- #7
Hmmm... I'm not so sure about the wattage of my psu (I'll look into it later), but I do know that I have a Pentium III 733Mhz, 384MB of SDRAM, an MSI 6154 MoBo, Quantum Fireball 20Gig HD, Inno3d Geforce4 Ti4200 and a couple of drives (dvd-rom and cd-rw, both of lite-on). I never modded or added any fans on my pc ever since. The only thing that I added was some anti-moisture bags inside the case.
If ir feels like a hairdryer it is too hot somewhere. But you might not just have a heat problem, you may also have a borderline PS overload situation. And if it is borderline it will also be heat sensitive.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
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- #9
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- #12
Another thing: when my pc shuts down this way, it won't come back up when I'm trying to turn it on. Instead, I have to switch off the avr for a few seconds (since the monitor is getting its supply from the pc's psu, I just observe its led until it goes off) before I can turn my pc back on.
Your monitor is getting AC through the switch but none of the consumable DC voltages so that is not the problem. Your graphics processor is probably the culprit.
In all probability you will need a new power supply, if not now, within a short period. And if you are lucky, you won't need a new motherboard when the power supply upchucks.
And yes, you will need a higher wattage unit.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
In all probability you will need a new power supply, if not now, within a short period. And if you are lucky, you won't need a new motherboard when the power supply upchucks.
And yes, you will need a higher wattage unit.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
- Thread starter
- #14
Why does the graphics card affect in this situation? Is it because the graphics card consumes more power than can be supplied or is it because it radiates a lot of heat? I'm asking this because the price difference between buying a new psu vs a case fan is large. But if the new psu solution would solve these issues (power and temperature), I will really consider of buying a new one. What can you recommend? Are the new psu's for Pentium 4's compatible wit h my ATX setup?
The graphics card draws more current to process the video display. That extra current dissapates as heat, warming up the enclosure.
Your power supply works harder to supply the extra current. that work creates extra heat.
You may have a power supply on the verge of crashing from the current requirements, or it may be because of the heat, or it may be neither, since a CPU overheating will appear to fail the same way.
I would do the power and cooling at the same time because both will eventually have to be done. Partial solutions lead to future problems.
The P4s have extra connectors to comply with FCC requirements. Should be fine.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
Your power supply works harder to supply the extra current. that work creates extra heat.
You may have a power supply on the verge of crashing from the current requirements, or it may be because of the heat, or it may be neither, since a CPU overheating will appear to fail the same way.
I would do the power and cooling at the same time because both will eventually have to be done. Partial solutions lead to future problems.
The P4s have extra connectors to comply with FCC requirements. Should be fine.
Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.
The device issues have been covered here, but nobody mentioned dust yet. Have you cleaned out your pc and made sure there is no dust clogging vents and gumming up fans??
You specifically said the psu seems to be emitting very hot air, so I will agree with edfair and say the psu seems to be overloaded. Still, having a dust-free pc will help a lot!
You specifically said the psu seems to be emitting very hot air, so I will agree with edfair and say the psu seems to be overloaded. Still, having a dust-free pc will help a lot!
Certainly sounds like your PSU needs changing but ftechguy is quite right pointing out the possibility of dust build up. If your CPU heatsink hasn't been cleaned in the last year then it could well be severely blocked and so not cooling the CPU properly.
As the GF4 4200Ti is a newer much more powerful graphics card than was around when the PC was made a reserve factor for such an upgrade was not built in to such machines, it is likely that your current PSU is only in the 200/250watt bracket and with the addition of this high consumer you have taken the PSU beyond it's supply limits.
You need a quality 300watt Plus PSU replacement but a 400 watt unit maybe a better idea with an eye on a possible future upgrade.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
As the GF4 4200Ti is a newer much more powerful graphics card than was around when the PC was made a reserve factor for such an upgrade was not built in to such machines, it is likely that your current PSU is only in the 200/250watt bracket and with the addition of this high consumer you have taken the PSU beyond it's supply limits.
You need a quality 300watt Plus PSU replacement but a 400 watt unit maybe a better idea with an eye on a possible future upgrade.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
- Thread starter
- #18
I checked my psu last night and it was rated as a 250 watt psu, I guess that's not enough. I'll be buying a new psu and case fan in the weekend as I'm at work right now. For the meantime I cleaned out the dust from the psu (not alarmingly blocking, but there were still dust) and opened up the side of the case just a bit so that excess heat could escape. I also tried touching the graphics card's pcb while running, and it was really hot.
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and comments. It was really a great help from all of you!
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and comments. It was really a great help from all of you!
You don't mention the CPU heatsink.
This heatsink is the one that usually gets blocked, look under/through the fan to see if the fins are free from dust build up.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
This heatsink is the one that usually gets blocked, look under/through the fan to see if the fins are free from dust build up.
Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.
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PeteWeedon
Technical User
In my experience, the case fan positions on most computer cases have so little opening that the fan is working with its hands tied behind its back! The air holes are too small and too few in number. The fan operates in aerodynamic stall because the airflow resistance of the 'grill' is too high.
The following does require metalworking skills and the right tools and I take no responsibility if you get it wrong. However, it will give the fan(s) much more freedom to do the job you've bought it (them) for. If you don't feel able to do the job yourself, seek help from a suitably skilled friend. The following scheme applies to the fan positions in the computer case, not to the fan in the PSU, don't mess with that one!
First, shop around for fan grills made of chrome-plated wire with loops at the corners on the same mounting-screw centres as the fan. You might be able to get these from a surplus store or from an electronics component supplier if you have a friend in the trade.
Once you've got the grills, take everything out of your computer case and put the components in a safe place. Then, using a felt-tip pen or similar, mark a circle, centred between the fan mounting-screw holes, the same diameter as the interior of the fan casing (i.e. the tunnel in which the fan rotor spins). Cut away the sheet metal within the circle and de-burr the cut edges. Make sure you remove all the swarf and metal filings from within the case and get rid of it before you re-assemble the machine.
Mount the case fans inside the case with the wire grills (finger guards) on the outside and rebuild the computer. Your fans will now be operating far from stall, they may actually turn more slowly but will shift much more air than before. Set the machine to work as after any other build.
Best regards,
Pete W.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - you haven't seen the latest Change Note!
The following does require metalworking skills and the right tools and I take no responsibility if you get it wrong. However, it will give the fan(s) much more freedom to do the job you've bought it (them) for. If you don't feel able to do the job yourself, seek help from a suitably skilled friend. The following scheme applies to the fan positions in the computer case, not to the fan in the PSU, don't mess with that one!
First, shop around for fan grills made of chrome-plated wire with loops at the corners on the same mounting-screw centres as the fan. You might be able to get these from a surplus store or from an electronics component supplier if you have a friend in the trade.
Once you've got the grills, take everything out of your computer case and put the components in a safe place. Then, using a felt-tip pen or similar, mark a circle, centred between the fan mounting-screw holes, the same diameter as the interior of the fan casing (i.e. the tunnel in which the fan rotor spins). Cut away the sheet metal within the circle and de-burr the cut edges. Make sure you remove all the swarf and metal filings from within the case and get rid of it before you re-assemble the machine.
Mount the case fans inside the case with the wire grills (finger guards) on the outside and rebuild the computer. Your fans will now be operating far from stall, they may actually turn more slowly but will shift much more air than before. Set the machine to work as after any other build.
Best regards,
Pete W.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - you haven't seen the latest Change Note!
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