The mind of an office cracker

[goombawaho]

The law is the law. Break it if you want to based on what the penalty is and how likely it is that you will get busted. I don't care what people do, but I'm not going to be an active pirate.

I do rat people out on Craig's list though when they are repeatedly selling "Corporate license XP - unlimited activations". Sent their ad and phone number to Microsoft. I don't want them profiteering in MY business area and offering something I can't match - pirated and thus CHEAP software to bloated middle-Americans.

It's an economic issue for me if I lose business because someone is selling Windows 7 for $49 Check out this recent ad. He changed his ad to an image because I kept flagging him. The guy won't give up. Tell me if you think this is legitimate software

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/sys/2340585260.html

 

[rclarke250]

I'm on the other side of the state! And no way those prices are legit. I get emails all the time with similar prices, either selling Chinese knock offs, or corporate keys.

 

[goombawaho]

Yeah - that guy irritates me and his English is poor to boot. I even emailed the guy and told him I was going to report him. That's when he switched to an image in his ad as opposed to text. Such a tricky guy, he nearly outwitted me.

rclarke250 - We've got a summer place over in Newaygo. Opening it up next week!!

 

[Noway2]

The law is the law. Break it if you want to based on what the penalty is and how likely it is that you will get busted. I don't care what people do, but I'm not going to be an active pirate.

And the law is bought by corporations, such as the one the one in question here. Until such time as this is not the case, and the law actually represents the PEOPLE of the nation, people will have to decide for themselves whether or not they wish to recognize and abide by the laws.

I personally don't pirate software, or music, or videos, etc. Fortunately, I am in a position where I don't have to. I choose to help fund the works that I value because I want them to be available in the future. At the same time, I have a real problem with organizations, such as the RIAA and MPAA buying legislation and using mob tactics to prop up and outdated and failing business model. This and its related effects are becoming a real problem for all published media. Take books for example. There are many technical books, most of which are utter garbage. You are hard pressed to walk into a store these days and find the books and the so called previews on places like Amazon and Google Books don't usually do a good job as far as letting you know whether the book is decent or not. Yet, the publishing agency is still demanding an high price, of which the author gets Sh!t. The model is broken.

As far as others selling, undoubtedly pirated material on places like Craig's list, I do understand and sympathize with your position. As I said, I don't support those actions and don't buy them. However, the people that do, probably wouldn't buy the product at full price either, and in this regard, I doubt you are really losing much business over them.

 

[goombawaho]

You should write up a manifesto and fly your flag somewhere, but probably not here. If you push too much of that attitude, you'll get booted.

I totally disagree with everything you said about RIAA and MPAA, but I don't want to get into it.

 

[Noway2]

Ok, I admit that my statement came out stronger than I would have liked. My apologies, and no offense intended, but "its the law" as an argument is a bit of a hot button with me.

As I said, I don't engage in piracy and I don't support those that do either. It hurts everybody. I do vote with my dollars and I support the organizations and business that I believe in. In particular I believe in supporting, local, smaller, independent business.

I know you said you don't want to get it into it, and this thread at least wouldn't be an appopriate place, but I am really curious as to your stance and opinion on organizations like the RIAA. I ask because I really do believe that they are to the detriment of the industry. Perhaps this would make for a good, rational, discussion in the pub forum?

 

[cdogg]

Noway2,
Your last statement about how much business is lost by those weren't willing to pay full price anyway is debatable. But for the most part, you bring up some valid points.

Having an opinion about the heavy-hand tactics being used by the RIAA or MPAA while making it clear that you're not condoning piracy isn't going to get you booted! Try not to give in to the conspiracy theories!


Carl

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test
a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
[tab][navy]For this site's posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[edfair]

Throw the BSA in the pot too.

Fortunately the judicial system is starting to understand that the way that penalties are calculated for infringement is a little out of touch with the real economic damages.

Having indicated that I am unhappy with how things have been working in general I should also say that I am satisfied that one infringer (a sometimes supplier of mine) supposedly paid a hefty penalty for some MS license violations. This via word-of-mouth from a competitor who followed the suit.

"Ginstar was accused of distributing "illicit Microsoft certificates of authenticity labels" but not unlicensed software."



Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[goombawaho]

Try not to give in to the conspiracy theories!" You talkin' to ME?

I do know that posts will disappear if they are not "liked". So, I figure users can too.

 

[Noway2]

Whoa, Goombawaho, calm down, please.

You may not realize it, but I for one have developed a lot of respect for you over last few years. While we may not agree 100% on the issues surrounding intellectual property piracy, I think if you look closely at what we have said, our stances really aren't that far apart. In fact, I think I have agreed with you more often than not on the subject.

You seem to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful, with a hell of lot of expertise especially when it comes to Windows and viruses and hardware in particular. You have certainly helped me out on more than one occasion I would really rather that something as stupid as lady having a dodgy copy of XP office drive such a wedge between us.

I am not sure what has gotten you so angry, but if it was something that I said, I do appologize.

 

[goombawaho]

Noway2 - Wait, wait, time out. You are mis-reading my last post ENTIRELY I'm not mad at ALL.

What I was saying was that the moderators of these forums will often "disappear" a thread if it treads on an area that is questionable (software keys, password hacking, etc.).

And, they have also been known to remove users that post these topics - usually for repeat offenses, spamming or continually annoying comments. So that's what I meant.

Thanks for the kind words - not trying to OFF you. It was for your benefit that I was trying to explain that you don't want to come off the wrong way. That made me laugh. Are we cool??

 

[Noway2]

Were cool, and I am glad that we are.

I guess this thread is another example of how difficult it is to convey tone in written communication. Change the inflection and emphasis on how one reads words and you can get entirely different meanings.

 

[strongm]

>the moderators of these forums will often "disappear" a thread if it treads on an area that is questionable

Generally only if in breach of the site policies on posts

 

[goombawaho]

Policy smolicy. How's my tone on that? Yeah, but whenever, if in doubt as to MY tone, I'm 98% sarcasm, 1% S.O.B. and 1% sugar and spice.

I think this thread has reached the end of its useful life but it was a good one. I wish there was a "close thread" button that the OP could press. Like - "game over".

 

[BadBigBen]

Interesting interlude... I agree with Norway2 in his assessment of the RIAA/MPAA and I too, do not condone selling of pirated software/media of any kind...

Goom, that guy on Craig'sList, how is he paid? cash on delivery or per PayPal, Bank, check? you may be able to get him through the DMCA by reporting him to the owners of Craig'sList, PayPal etc...
Just a thought...




Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[goombawaho]

Yeah, I'm NOT gonna do a crusade against him. If flagging him (aggravating him essentially) doesn't do it, I guess I'm not going to go to any heroic efforts to get him. Don't you kind of think of people that report things as whiners, complainers, rats, tattletales? Even if it's a legitimate rat out.

BadBigBen - You want me to set up a meeting with him in a dark alley in Detroit to "discuss" software piracy and ask him about how he conducts business?? HA. I'm not liking that scenario for some reason. Now, if I had some members of the Tek Tips super-anti-piracy squad with me, that would change things.

 

[Noway2]

Now, if I had some members of the Tek Tips super-anti-piracy squad with me, that would change things"

Do we get to crack some skulls?

A point for thought on the "Interesting interlude...assessment of the RIAA/MPAA":

Until about a year ago, I had pretty much quit buying music in any format. I had been getting increasingly dis-satisfied with the overall quality of the music that I was being exposed to, mostly via commercial over-the-air radio. On the occasions that I would buy a CD, I would usually regret it as I would pay on average $18-$20 and find that it had one or two decent songs and the rest would be trash that was obviously thrown in as filler to make an album, but was clearly lacking in any sort of emotion on the part of the musicians. I had heard the horror stories of RIAA lawsuits, including the one centered around America's Funniest Home Videos, and the karaoke bar that was shut down, and others and was loath the purchase and download any music as a result.

Fast forward to about a year ago, whence I discovered Pandora. I was impressed enough that I first bought a paid subscription for the year. In that year, I then purchased, mostly through Amazon, more music (to the tune of several hundred dollars) than I had previously bought in the last decade. The thing is, none of what I bought is from one of the major record labels that are partnered with the RIAA. Rather it comes from smaller and independent labels. So while the record label executives are holding their meetings and crying about how their revenues continue to drop year over year, my investment in music continues to increase again. The thing is that I am not following their prescribed business model: I am not listening to commercial radio, (they bought most of the radio stations and now syndicate the same programming nationally), and I am not buying the music that they are producing.

Part of this story relates to the piracy concept. The bands that I was collecting did not have all of their albums listed on places like Amazon. I ended up purchasing some of them through a site in a foreign country that had explicit terms of agreement, in which they stated that they were responsible for the royalties and asserted the copyright protections, etc. The site also had good customer reviews and was on the front page listing of Google. However, I am suspicious about whether or not they truly fulfill the terms of the sale in regards to royalty and other legalities, due to (low) pricing in US dollars. My question is, what is the extent of my responsibilities as a customer. In my opinion, I made an explicit search of the terms and made a more than reasonable attempt to verify the validity of the retailer and paid for the merchandise.

 

[BadBigBen]

Goom, I was just wondering, not for you to don the urban BDU's or the Lycra suit of a vigilante, nor to gang up on him... btw. that statement about you meeting him in a dark alley, had me spewing my coffee, it just made me laugh out lout (an honest thanks for that, as it was sorely needed, the laugh I mean, not the spewing)...

Noway2,

your question, about the responsibility as a customer, I would not be able to answer. I can offer my opinion though as to your searching and the attempt to verify the validity of the retailer, which in my book and humble opinion should be sufficient enough. Living in Germany it's a totally different ballgame... but I too, have not purchased any Music CD's in close to 15 yrs. but this is mostly due to loosing interest, my stereo is now just a big ole dust collecter...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[goombawaho]

Yeah - I try to be humorous, but sometimes I get in trouble. Happy spewing though. I don't look good in lycra anyway.

I guess I'll mind my own business and let these people do what they want. Nobody appointed me bootleg investigator.

Regarding the music issue Noway2. I think it gets muddier due to the international aspect of things. I would say that I don't like the idea of the RIAA/MPAA charging some single mom $100,000 because her kids are downloading music and movies. THAT is kind of victimizing people, while there are real pirates cranking out CD/DVD duplicates, etc. in a hard core manner.

I remember back in the downloading heyday (2000-ish), my co-worker had like five hard drives in his home PC and was sharing files like crazy. Those were the days of Napster.

 

[gbaughma]

Throw the BSA in the pot too.

... I'm confused about that statement. Care to elaborate?



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com