The master-page "domino effect"--any solution?

[Zeppo123]

Hi,

When you add a page to a Frame document, Frame should apply the Right/Left master-page usage to the new page. When you delete a page, it should leave the other pages unchanged.

It doesn't, of course. Frame keeps the same master-page usage sequence, so everything ends up one page off. I can't imagine this was by design.

Is there a way to avoid this? I'm tired of going through 300-page documents and resetting the master pages. :?P Thanks!

 

[DavidCono]

You can apply a particular master page to ALL right pages and another master page to ALL left pages.

 

[Zeppo123]

David: Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know Frame can use default Left/Right master pages, if that's what you mean.

Let's say you've created a 100-page document in which you've set up master pages for Left, Right, and First (for chapter headers).

The boss then sends you some pages to insert, or tells you to delete some pages, or both. When you do so, Frame doesn't keep the correct master pages assigned to each page; those assignments stay in place while the page numbers change. Your chapter-header pages now use Left/Right, First is applied to non-chapter-header pages.

I've always figured that was either a gross oversight or one of Adobe's quirky style-things. Am I missing something obvious? (I hope so.)

 

[frameuser]

You either need to go to Frame 7 (if you haven't already) or buy Master Page Tools from Silicon Prairie Software.

Frame 7 includes a utility for re-applying master pages to a document automatically.

MPT includes the same functionality. However, MPT also works with pages that have nothing but tables on them. Frame 7 can't handle those pages.

We bought a site license for MPT pretty cheap ($100 or so?), and it's worth every penny.

Rick

 

[Zeppo123]

And all this time I thought I was just stupid or crazy. :?P

So, until now, everyone's been doing this by hand?? Why on earth induced Adobe to withhold such basic functionality?

It's especially ironic, considering that Frame's main selling-point is its management of large documents. The larger the document, the more unnecessary work and aggravation this causes. Hasn't Adobe gotten major grief about this from Frame users? (Or have I been the only one interested in adding and deleting pages?)

At the risk of making this seem like a rant: No, I don't want to upgrade, or pay $100 for a third-party tool, for the "privilege" of having a high-end publishing tool whose page definitions stay where they've been put. I'd rather switch to one that does what it's supposed to do.

And that's a shame. I've spent considerable time learning Frame---as have we all---and have been an enthusiastic Frame advocate.

> Frame 7 includes a utility for re-applying master pages to a document automatically.

This is something that needs a "utility"?

In the earliest days of word processing, computers were too slow to reformat paragraphs as you inserted or deleted text. You had to make your changes, then use a separate command to reformat the paragraph.

This is equivalent to that! I am baffled and disgusted.

 

[frameuser]

Yes, everyone's been doing it by hand.

I would think it would be cheaper to pay the hundred bucks (I think it's only about $10 for a single license) for a simple plug-in when you consider the cost of switching to another authoring systems, especially over something as trivial as this.

Rick Henkel
Documentation Systems Developer

http://frameuser.docspages.com

 

[Zeppo123]

Oh, okay, I didn't read your reply closely enough. Sure, ten bucks I can handle.

But I'm still baffled why Frame---through v.6, at least---does this. Certainly they didn't assume that everyone used just "Right" and "Left"...?

I guess I was just looking for a bit of attention, like a disoriented inmate wandering the halls of the asylum... :?)

 

[craigede]

If your problem is just caused by having to apply the First master page to the chapter heading pages, why in the world are you not building your document using a book? If you assign the First master page to the first page of each chapter (i.e. file) in the book, adding pages to the previous chapter has NO effect on the next chapters assigned master pages. Save yourself some work by using books to work for you.

Most master page changes can be managed by separating the "oddball" pages into their own files or into files that begin with the oddball pages so that additions to the files don't throw off the master page settings earlier on in the file.

Best,

Craig

 

[Zeppo123]

I use books to organize general sections: front matter, TOC, chapters (as one file), index, etc. You're right, though---it's a good idea to make each chapter a file, if only for the reason we're discussing. Thanks for the idea.

 

[ceddy]

>This is equivalent to that! I am baffled and disgusted.

You might want to check you're using Frame properly. The whole 'book' functionality was set up to address pagination issues for long, multi-chapter publications.

If you're not already splitting your chapters into files within books, start doing so immediately. It makes things so much easier.

Simon Burrows
Documentation Manager

http://www.talis.com

 

[Zeppo123]

> You might want to check you're using Frame properly.

Hmm---if I didn't know better, I'd say you were patronizing me. :?)

> The whole 'book' functionality was set up to address
> pagination issues for long, multi-chapter publications.

Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the problem. If your document uses more than the default "Right" and "Left" master pages (and mine usually do, don't yours?)---or should you modify any page's margins (e.g., to squeeze in tables, figures, or paragraphs to avoid excessive vertical space)---adding or deleting one page requires you to reassign all of the chapter's master pages. That's not as bad as having to do the whole book's---but it's still goofy.

 

[hubbiida]

An issue I have regarding pagination in Frame is that if you create a new master page, unlike Quark or PageMaker, you cannot (as far as I can tell) stipulate if said master page is to be a right or left page. The only master pages that can be automatically assigned right or left are the default ones. Or am I missing something? Therefore when you ask Frame to "read from" the previous file to determine the correct right/left pagination for the first page of a file in a book, if the file uses a unique master page as its first page it ends up being whatever the master page is, be it right or left. True, you can create two unique master pages as a pair (i.e., one right, one left), but you will have to assign the correct one manually by telling Frame to start a particular file on a right or a left. There is no way to do it automatically unless you are using the default right/left master pages. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ceddy]

> If your document uses more than the default "Right" and "Left" master pages (and mine usually do, don't yours?)-

Each document within my multi-file books usually contain a front, left, and right master page. Your documents are going to look unusual and will be difficult to follow if you start altering the margins on individual pages.

What sort of document is it, by the way?

Simon

 

[markso]

Zeppo123,

Does the following help you out any?

http://www.adobe.com/print/tips/frm7masterpage/main.html

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