The IT Industry As A Whole....... 2

[GoLdFiNgeR]

Ok here i go, ive read all the IT Mega Scam Posts, and they are about as true as it gets. Im 19 years old and have been working in the IT field for 2. I have been building, networking, and all that good stuff for aobut 6. But even in my two years of school where i learned tcp/ip, novell netware 5, nt 4, VB, HTML, and more, i could see the field becoming corrupted as i spoke. There were kids in the class who everytime the teacher looked away, or left the room, they would start a game of quake, or download mp3's. Now come on, but we shouldnt have to compete with people like that for a job. Especially since we know what were doing, and we speak the truth. Sure i download mp3's and play games, but not at work. I got hired because i told the truth abou my IT knowledge, and i still have my job because i do good work and show my employer that i know what im doing.

But it seems to me that the IT industry is going to He!!. When i graduated HS 2 years ago there were tons of jobs out there, now there is maybee half what there was. And i beleive that there were that many jobs because the IT workforce didnt have enouht good quality workers, and it still doesnt. Yeah the IT workforce may have double or whatever, but those who make up the double dont know crap, are lazy, and think it's easy money. Well it ends up not being for them because they figure out that they dont want to do IT work for their career. But i dont know about anybody else, but i love working with computers, and for me it is easy money. Because i (we) have a love, a desire to be IT Professionals. Whether it be a prgrammer or a network technician, or whatever, we do it because we love it.

and one more thing for now on all the asholes who are taking our jobs are called fits, fake i t scum, get out we dont need you, (like the other guy said) and finally, ranting about this problem on tek tips wont solve it, we have to do more, something else about it or all of us good guys's careers could be in jeopordy because fo teh FITS.

thats it peace

 

[svanels]

Now the hype of the Internet that every fool could jump into E-Bussiness and make tons of money is over, we are counting the bodies.

Every body started making websites and they failed because:

.without_information create a site specialized in an area they know nothing about.

.without_bussiness_plan

.without_target

.without_marketting

.without_flexibility

.without_cost_control

.without_money before you go into the market you need to know how much you are going to invest, and have an estimate of how much you are going to make.

Regards Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[thelabguy]

all this from a 19 year old??? No offence meant, but it seems like you're a little too green to judge the entire industry. Hell, I've been in it for over 5 years, and I consider myself too green.

This industry IS easy money... easy in the way that there are a lot of us that do love what we do, and are constantly learning and bettering ourselves. All the ranting that has been going on just brings everyone down.

It's not just the IT field... my friend is a Chef at a swanky resturant, they are going through the exact same thing as our industry. It's all part of the economy, we're all up, or all down.

# ./end.rant Jarod, The Lab Guy

 

[GoLdFiNgeR]

your right, thanks

 

[AndrewBillits]

I'm not saying that this applies to anyone in this forum, but this is how I see most most of teh people who are getting teh jobs(in my area at least):


Need someone with experience? You must be kidding
Need a person who knows what they are doing? Get a life
Need a person who will actualy do work? I thought I was being payed to look smart
Got a Job Opening. I'm your guy!!!

just my 2 cents

 

[CajunCenturion]

I guess I'm a bit green too. I started programming on IBM 1130 (in assembler) and an IBM 1130 (PL/C) back in the late sixties. I've been in the IT Profession for over 30 years, and I've earned a few gray hairs in the process.

Back in those dark ages (before the PC), programmers were a select few, and required some very special skills and training. When assembler is your only choice, you have to know what you're doing to get the machine to sing and dance. IT was considered a speciality career. Back then it was true.

Today, things are much easier. Languages are much easier to work with, development tools, including editors, compilers, IDE, debugging, etc, etc make the task of software development almost child's play. In fact children are doing it. There is an old saying -- "If it were easy, anyone can do it" - Well, IT is getting easy, easier every day, so anyone IS doing IT. (nice pun?), and thus the observations of our dear young green GoldFinger are quite valid.

For those of use who are dedicated to the IT profession, we must maintain the highest levels of quality and personal character within our field. There is nothing we can do to keep, nor would we want to, anyone from beginning their career in IT. And those of us in the right positions must steer those persons away from IT when they are not right for the profession, (either for talent-or lack thereof, or other reasons as observed by GoldFinger) and to properly motivate and retain those who will have a positive impact on us. That's how we as IT professionals, can help to insure that our field is not watered down any more than is has to be.

But GoldFinger, IT is not going to hell, we're just not a "select" group anymone. But then, neither are CPAs nor are lawyers. Its up to us to police ourselves.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[meadandale]

GoldFinger has a point. However, the trend is reversing. Note how many IT people are and continue to be unemployed. Many of these are the people you describe with little skill or motivation. Employers have gotten quite a bit more picky about who they hire. It used to be that you get get a networking job if you could SPELL TCP/IP. Those days are over. I think that those wannabe IT folks are going to get flushed out of the industry. The days of easy money in IT are, by all accounts, over.

Cheers

 

[dogbert2]

I agree with meadandale, the people who didn't bother to
bust their ass in the industry and put in the time to
really learn stuff (self-study + building home network,
classroom instruction + practical labs), or some worth-
while combination will find themselves left out in the
cold (or people who have been working in the industry
for 12-15 years, and haven't bothered to keep their
skills current, I see a few resumes' like this from
time to time)

In reading future IT projections, it would appear that
the industry won't recover until at least Spring to
Summer of 2003 (and perhaps longer), due to no increase
in spending for IT, belt tightening, and the enron
and authur andersen scandals (read Oracle here).

I also heard that US Rep. Tancredo is working on
legislation to return the H1-B limit to 65,000
(instead of the 195K it's at right now), that will
come back down to 65,000 in 2004, but he agrees with
what is going on, and with the massive layoffs in
both IT and telecom, additional foreign workers are
not what is needed right now.

 

[rycamor]

CajunCenturion speaks some truth, althouth I would like to add another point, in regards to "If it were easy, anyone can do it".

Yes, there has been a trend to commoditize skills, and make tools that do the work for you, etc... but still, no IDE, however amazing, can teach you logic, or discipline. Yes, everyone may be doing it, but IMHO, it is still only the select few who are really doing it right.

For an example in another area: back when the web was just starting to get popular, and desktop computing was exploding, I and an artist friend started a small business in graphic design. He was amazed at what I could do with CorelDraw, Photoshop, etc... But, it started to bother him how capable the tools were. He said something similar to the above phrase: "It's getting so easy, anyone can do this stuff, so why do they need us?". I simply asked him "have you seen the stuff people actually produce with all these great tools?". Most of it was terrible. A graphics program cannot teach you to be an artist; it can only make the details easier to handle, but it still comes down to your conceptual abilities. No amount of clever GUIs are going to do the conceptual stuff for you. The same holds true for programming, networking, etc...

And so what if the standard IT guy is just a click-happy idiot. The real select few are doing stuff far more interesting than that anyway, such as developing the GUIs being used by the click-happy idiots, or writing the protocols for the next-generation networks. -------------------------------------------

"Now, this might cause some discomfort..."
(

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html)

 

[TekkieDave]

It's kind of weird, but for me, I like seeing knuckleheads in my I.S. classes. I mean, these are our peers. If they are goofing off in school, and swinging C's and B-'s, when it comes time to apply for jobs, my efforts as a serious student will stand out. I mean, it would be nice to have more serious students in class, because they can be a resource for when you don't understand something, or you need help, but at the same time, if everyone in the field is a total brainiac, then finding a job will be very competitive and difficult.

 

[GoLdFiNgeR]

tekkie dave you have a very valid point, and i agree with you 100%. the only thing that i get pissed at is when the slacker/knuckleheads take away from my learning, as in wasting my time/classes time, not doing their part in labs and such, in turn lowering my grade and what not, and of course there will be people getting lower grades that dont goof off, they either dont study or just plain dont get it, and the latter part is not totally their fault, but not studying is,

but the thing that gets me most is when the teacher/boss knows less than the student/employee. it doesnt make sense, and i dont think it is right, and i know that we will never know everuything, and right now im talking about overall konwledge of comuting, not just one section for say web design, its just not right, how does this happen exactly??

 

[CajunCenturion]

Goldfinger - the reason that the boss sometimes knows less than the staff about computing in general could be for any/all of the following reasons.

One - the boss is often (not always) chosen for that position, not because of technical knowledge, but for managerial skills and/or business skills.

Two - It is not always wise to take your experts and promote them into management position, and take them away from what they do best. Its not often the best use of their talents. Hopefully, the boss knows this and listens to the experts before making those decision which he/she feels are in the best interests of the business (not necessarily in the best interests of the IT/MIS department)

Third - Politics Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[GoLdFiNgeR]

yes, your right but i guess i should have explained my last job more in depth then you would konw what im getting at, but i also know what your saying and i totally agree with you, if you really want me to explain my situation, just say so and i will be happy to .

cheers

 

[sleipnir214]

Goldfinger, don't feel that IT is special. There are slackers and knuckleheads in every profession. The difference is that in the IT field it's easier to "baffle them with bullshit" than in many others.

If your plumber was no good at fixing your pipes, you'll know it in short order when your toilet explodes. You'll know your electrician was a slacker when your outlets start throwing sparks. But how can an outsider tell that his IT guy isn't worth a tinker's damn?

Think about it. We speak a jargon that not only is completely baffling to outsiders, but has its own grammar and syntax and is changing almost daily. We deal with esoteric constructs that often have no palpable physical reality. And the best of us have some of the worst social skills this side of wolverines.

The only professions that are anywhere near as confusing to outsiders as IT are the professions of doctor and lawyer. And look at the rep those guys have.

Don't worry about those that have jobs in the field but can't do them. The Kharma Train will pull into their stations sooner or later. Just make sure to look appropriately chagrined as they are cleaning out their desks. ______________________________________________________________________
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[GoLdFiNgeR]

yes i understand exactly what your saying sleipner, since everybody keeps misunderstanding me, let me explain my job, i work for a man who runs his own computer consulting firm, it is him, and me, and he is the ceo, president, everything, i am just a "worker", the problem is that he doesnt hardly know how to install and use any type of windows, and hes always calling gateway tech support to help him, and he wont listen to me when we are installing, using it whatever, he says we better call to be sure, etc. well i guess that is ok, but if i was the client, i would be like, dont you konw what your doing, it just seems to me that using windows to set up a network should be something that you konw how to do , not somethig you need to cal tech support for, am i wrong here? and he is not going to say , "hey i dont konw anything, ill hire so and so to take over" because then he loses money etc etc.

thats what im talking about, i konw that in most other jobs, where the boss my not be as technically inclined, he proably would get fired, or demoted, or whatever, and i also konw that it isnt special that they all have slckers and such, i was just pointing out a problem, with any industry,

maybee im not explaining htis right, i hope i am, but it just seems to me that around where i live, stuff like this happens all the time, not the whole state, just around my little town, with the small businesses. not the large corporations. hope you get it

 

[CajunCenturion]

Sooner or later, that will probably catch up to him. One day, you guys may be faced with a technical problem that it over both your heads, then what? I would be real concerned about my future if I were in that situation. I don't want to wake up one day and be out of a job. I don't want to get caught in the middle. If I were in that situation, then I would be quietly looking for another job, and probably take the new job when it came along.

As far as your other question, how does this happen? Your boss started his own company, and started selling his services as a computer consultant. And he has been able to insure that what he has sold has been delivered. He is obviously a good salesman. And it will continue as long as he's making a profit. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[svanels]

I think that your boss has other problems to worry over. Not because he is the boss he has to have thourough knowledge of everything. I think his biggest headache is how to pay his bills (and your salary). Another point is looking for clients which are willing to pay his price.
One of the decisions he has to make is, when problems arive, is to determine whether he calls in professional services or fix it by himself (with delay for the client and probably a bad reputation).
I wouldn't buy at a guy who is experimenting when installing. Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[GoLdFiNgeR]

cajun centurion, your exactly right and thats what im doing, those are exactly my thoughts,

svanels you are right too, he does have those things to worry about, i get that, i just hope he gets it too

 

[sleipnir214]

Goldfinger,

You want a canonical reference to what's wrong in the IT field?

Read this thread: thread434-303269

Here we have someone who has obviously confused "error-free code" with "code that produces no errors." ______________________________________________________________________
Don't say thanks. Just award stars.
______________________________________________________________________