The Great Leap Forward: NT 4.0 to Server 2008

[bubarooni1]

OK, don't hardly know where to start...

My only AD experience was setting up a small office for my Mom's business about 6 years ago using Windows Server 2000. I found it a bit odd back then so I'm pretty much a complete noob at this.

On my 'to do' list for the year is replacing my old NT servers. I currently have one NT 4.0 PDC, the BDC died about two months ago. I also have a NT 4.0 TSE that is lightly used for a couple of apps. I have about 180 workstations, WIN2K and WINXP Pro, spread out over 8 seperate locations. At my main site, I have about 100 workstations that get dhcp requests fulfilled by the NT 4.0 PDC, routers do at all other locations. All locations use NT 4.0 PDC for login/security.

What I would like to do is replace the NT 4.0 PDC with a machine that will serve that function, house a few sql server 2005 express instances and allow about 5-10 terminal server connections. One of the SQL instances would be our Great Plains system and is the only one that would put any work on the system.

I'm hoping I can save on hardware and/or licensing on a backup server by using Linux with Samba for the backup server. I'd like to plow back any saved money into better hardware for the Server 2008.

As old as NT 4.0 is, does Server 2008 have a 'migration wizard' or some such utility that would ease moving over user account? Also, I need to figure out how many licenses for Server 2008 I will need. Is there a way to figure out the maximum number of logins I reach with NT 4.0? I'm sure that licensing Server 2008 is not cheap so I'd like to be able to make a fairly informed decision on my licensing needs.

I'm really looking for some general idea of what I'm gonna need from a hardware side and from a services side. I'm not sure what a PDC equivalent in Active Directory requires but I do see a whole lot of unfamiliar acronyms for services floating about.

If anyone here has done a similar project, if you can keep me from making a hash of this project by pointing me in the right general direction I'd be grateful!

Thanks In Advance

 

[58sniper]

What I would like to do is replace the NT 4.0 PDC with a machine that will serve that function, house a few sql server 2005 express instances and allow about 5-10 terminal server connections.

I wouldn't recommend running business apps or terminal services on a DC. Ever.

For licensing, assuming per user, it's, well, 1 per user.

Personally, I'd use DHCP from the server at all locations via DHCP Helper. You get better DNS registration that way.

Pat Richard MVP
Plan for performance, and capacity takes care of itself. Plan for capacity, and suffer poor performance.

http://www.ucblogs.net/blogs/exchange/

 

[bubarooni1]

OK, sounds like sage advice.

How 'bout I scrimp on the hardware for the PDC replacement and then splurge on equipment for another server that would act like a BDC and house the business apps?

I have about 250 user accounts but never have 250 people logged in simultaneously. Should I look at having maybe 170 concurrent logins per server or something similar to save money?

 

[58sniper]

That doesn't change things. I wouldn't run that on ANY domain controller. In 2000 and later, there is no such thing as a PDC and BDC. They're all writable. You should have at least two domain controllers that do just that. Use an application server for the applications. Too many security issues to worry about when trying to put those resources on a DC.

Concurrent logins aren't the issue. If you have 250 users configured, you need 250 CALs (assuming per-user licensing).

Pat Richard MVP
Plan for performance, and capacity takes care of itself. Plan for capacity, and suffer poor performance.

http://www.ucblogs.net/blogs/exchange/

 

[kmcferrin]

There isn't a direct upgrade path from NT4 to 2008. You would have to move through several intermediate steps to get there. You're almost better off scrapping everying and starting fresh from an infrastructure standpoint.

Here's one thing that you might consider though, especially if you're tight on cash. Get Windows 2008 and put it on either a single very beefy server (not recommended) or a pair of slightly less beefy servers, and run Hyper-V. Then create virtual copies of your current servers inside Hyper-V. Or you could try ESXi since that would have better support for NT4. But if your antiquated hardware can run your current environment just fine, then newer hardware should have no trouble.

Once you have virtualized everything you can take your time workingthrough the upgrade. You could build out a new 2008 Domain in parallel to your existing NT4 domain and then migrate people more gradually. Since your existing server environment would exist as files on your new hardware, you could take snapshots before making any changes and easily roll back from a problem.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[bubarooni1]

well, the virtualization thing seems a little over my head, though i'll check it out...

in a more traditional role, what about the following:

* two lightweight servers (dual cores, 2 Gb's RAM) to act as domain controllers, network storage and host my corporate intranet

* one heavyweight server (quad core, 4 Gb's RAM) to act as application server

Also, on my domains. I have the existing NT Domain, MyCompany. I also have a an off site hosted internet site, MyWebAddress.com.

Can I keep the MyCompany Domain when I move to Active Directory or will I need to change every single computer and server over to MyWebAddress.com.

 

[SteveTheGeek]

That's the way I'd play it, there's nothing more painful than losing your only domain controller.

As far as the migration, there'd be so many steps involved that I think you'd be better off creating a new domain beside your old one, plus less risk of causing problems, even if it'll be more actual work. Any particular reason to go with Win2008? Win2003 has a lot more accumulated knowledge/experience associated with it and the upgrade might be less painful as a result.

You can name your AD pretty much whatever you want as long as you leave off the .com but whether you can use the exact same domain name as your NT4 domain currently has depends on the migration strategy you go with.

 

[58sniper]

What are you using for the intranet? If it's SharePoint, putting that on a DC isn't wise.

You still need to make an interim stop at 2003 during the migration before going to 2008. As mentioned, research using virtualization for this as it's a short term stop and fairly straight forward. Lots of info online about doing it. Doing it this route means you don't have to touch the PCs.

Setup Virtual Server on a desktop and install a Windows 2008 guest and play, play, play. If you're making the leap, no reason at all to use 2003. It's outdated. If you're making the leap, might as well make it a big one.

You mention dual cores for the DCs. As in 2 dual cores each? That's four cores for each DC. 1 quad core, as mentioned for the app server is 4 cores. That's the same as the DCs. 4GB vs 2GB is a moot point, since the price difference is likely less than what your combo meal lunch at Burger King will be.

Stand up the new DCs. Research if your apps will run on a 64 bit platform. If so, pile more RAM on the application box.



Pat Richard MVP
Plan for performance, and capacity takes care of itself. Plan for capacity, and suffer poor performance.

http://www.ucblogs.net/blogs/exchange/

 

[stfaprc]

wow, I can not believe I am not the only moving from NT4 to Win2008 !

We have several NT4 servers, the one that is running as a PDC I plan on updating to W2K Server , do I need to replace/remove the NT that is running as a BDC?