Terminal Services 1

[mozingod]

I'm trying to develope a proposal to deploy thin clients on our plant floor, and I wanted to double check some of the cost issues with those of you that have done this before. I figure I'm going to need the following:

Client:
1) Thin client box @ ~ $300
2) Terminal Services CAL @ ~ $62.47
3) Monitor/keyboard/mouse already have

Total per station = $362.47 * 18 stations = $6524.46 total for workstations.

Server:
1) Compaq w/Xeon 2.4Ghz, 512M @ $1821.13
2) Windows Server 2003 Std @ $563.75
3) Terminal emulation/Office 2000 license already purchased (only need one for all clients, right?).

Total for server = $2384.88

Estimate for project = $8909.34

Are there any major licenses I'm missing here? Do I need a normal CAL in addition to the Terminal Service one? It's kinda rough on some of the figures that I'll smooth out once I know I have all the major items included. Thanks for any input on this!

Darrell Mozingo

 

[mozingod]

*bump*

Also woundering... does 2003 Serve have any advantages over 2000 Server for Terminal Services usage?

Darrell Mozingo

 

[blisten]

My understanding of the microsoft licensing is that you will need an office license for EACH of the clients. so you would need 18 office licenses not 1. Also on your server, if you are running TS i would AT MINIMUM double your ram.

 

[MSMVP]

Blisten is correct - you will need an Office license per user - it's not a per server license structure.

As to the RAM - if you're going to run Office off of a TS box with a potential for 18 users, you're going to be looking somewhere between 3 and 4GB of memory. And,I'd recommend a dual proc instead of just a single.

Remember, in TS Application mode you are slicing out and dedicating portions of RAM and processor to EACH USER. Test on a single TS session to get the baseline figures and multiply from there.



Rick Kingslan MCSE, MCSA, MCT
Microsoft MVP - Active Directory
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

 

[mozingod]

So the only true savings in using s TS setup is in hardware/upgrades? It sounds like on the software side, you're still purchasing for 18 seperate computers...

Darrell Mozingo

 

[mozingod]

OK, would a dual Xeon 1.4Ghz w/2G of RAM hold 18-20 users?

Darrell Mozingo

 

[OUCATS]

Administration is also much easier. You make one change or install a program one time and everyone now has it (instead of visiting every workstation). But the downside, if the server goes down, everyone goes down. That's why it's really smart to purchase server upgrades like a RAID5 array, dual power supplies, etc... This will help take the headache out of losing a drive or other redundant piece.

As far as RAM goes, what type of applications will be running along with the Office programs? Any database apps? I agree with the others, I would increase the RAM to a minimum of 2-3GB.

 

[NickFerrar]

You should consider 2 servers with Win2k AS and load balance. It not only gives another level of redundancy and better performance but also allows you to have downtime (application patching, hardware upgrades etc) whilst still providing a service from one server. My limited experience is within a Citrix MetaframeXP environment though so not 100% if you can do all that with native Windows TS.

 

[mattjurado]

Mozingod, the above post is right, you'll need an office license for each user, although you'll only need one disk to install.

You do need both a regular CAL and a TSCAL for each user.

Also, as to memory usage, for 18-20 users, 3-4gb RAM should do you fine, if your users are only running MS Office. If they are going to run other apps, or potentially run more apps in the future, you'll want to consider a second server for load balancing and/or redunancy (which might be hard to financially justify for 20 users), or buy Windows 2000 Advanced Server, which allows for more than the standard 4gb RAM. I'd get a dual processor board, although one should do you fine off the bat.

Another consideration is drive usage. Go SCSI. If you have a domain controller that holds all of your data, and has enough space, you can do without a dedicated data drive (point user's home directories and application paths to the main server). Otherwise, get a dedicated drive for data, swap storage, and don't forget a tape drive to back it up.

Since you'll spend hours installing the os, patching, license installation, application installation, setting group policies to restrict users, and so on, its a no brainer to spend a few extra hundred, to mirror the OS to another drive. Our SCSI failure rate seems to be getting higher and higher (comprable to IDE now), you don't want to spend all that time setting up one drive, to have it fail. A windows terminal server can mirror just fine, very little performance impact.

If you think bandwidth might be an issue, and the data is going to be stored on an existing file server, you might buy 1 gig network cards for each, and a switch with 2 ports to match.

Also, I HIGHLY recommend using Neoware Linux based clients instead of WYSE winterms. There is a huge issue with Windows redirected printing on WYSE Windows CE based Winterms (which they're not making so public right now, see my post below). I have deployed the NEOWARE EON PROVEN 2100. Its a nice unit, its about your price range, and it has full support for either Microsoft RDP or Citrix ICA sessions.

thread48-502945

 

[Zelandakh]

how many concurrent users? Go for 2003 as you get firmer TS support and true colour. If the clients are 2k pro you don't need ts cals, only windows ones.

i get more than adequate performance for 6 concurrent from a pentium ii 400 with 512mb ram. if you gotta buy office so many times, look at either using a free office product or staying fat client. could be cheaper cos the server requirement isn't so huge.

 

[PiMMeL]

Hi,

I am totally confused about the cals and registration of the Terminal server. I have a Windows 2000 Server with 5 cals. Now I want to have 5 users connect through terminal services to this server. Do I need to buy 5 extra TS Cals or am I ok. The workstations are W2K Pro stations.
Also will this setup expire even if I activate the Terminal server portion? (I activated it through the internet and got a key I had to enter). I have done all this and it works well but I can't have it quit on me in 90 or 120 days ofcourse. So do you also need TSCals if your workstation is Windows 2000 or do you only need it if you connect to the Terminal Server with a thin client box?

Thanx,

Pim

 

[MSMVP]

PiMMeL -

Did I just answer this in another post???

If you are using Windows 2000 Pro clients or Windows XP Pro clients, the CAL is included. Anything else is going to require a CAL.

Look here for more:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/server/howtobuy/pricing/tsfaq.asp

Rick Kingslan MCSE, MCSA, MCT
Microsoft MVP - Active Directory
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone