Hi All. This will be my first "telephone" cabling job. I am doing a friend a favor so as to reduce his costs of moving. He is having a Telephone Tech put in his phone system but I will be running the wires. The telephone tech said I need to get 6P6C USOC jacks for the stations and these should be terminated on a standard 66Block. I am unsure of how the 66 block gets terminated from the jacks. I have alot of standard CAT5 wiring experience but no phone exp. I only see where the Tip and Ring get terminated on the 66 block what about the other two pair that the telphone tech is asking for. Sorry for the long explanation and thanks in advance for the help.
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Telecom Wiring Project 4
- Thread starter wally130
- Start date
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2
- #2
mikeydidit
IS-IT--Management
Nicely done Jim. You get a star on this one.
Mikey
Mikey
- Thread starter
- #4
DToolsDesigner
Instructor
Jim
The post you put up is not a proper illustration of punching down cat 5 on a 66 block.
That style of termination would fail a BICSI Installer class.
To be cat 5 compliant, the pairs must remain twisted right up to point of termination. In those illustrations the pairs are untwisted OUTSIDE the wire channels.
I have a a graphic posted of a proper cat 5 compliant termination on a 66 block.
For what its worth.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
The post you put up is not a proper illustration of punching down cat 5 on a 66 block.
That style of termination would fail a BICSI Installer class.
To be cat 5 compliant, the pairs must remain twisted right up to point of termination. In those illustrations the pairs are untwisted OUTSIDE the wire channels.
I have a a graphic posted of a proper cat 5 compliant termination on a 66 block.
For what its worth.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
franklin97355
Technical User
Richard, The illistration was of cat3 on a 66 block.
DToolsDesigner
Instructor
The comments were regarding Cat 5, and frankly, why would you do things 2 different ways?
Learn the right way and do everything the same, as Skip stated, he started doing it with cat 3, and does everything that way, you build repetition so you can do it without having to think about what you are doing.
Prevents that sinking feeling when you are half way done and realize its done the wrong way.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
Learn the right way and do everything the same, as Skip stated, he started doing it with cat 3, and does everything that way, you build repetition so you can do it without having to think about what you are doing.
Prevents that sinking feeling when you are half way done and realize its done the wrong way.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
daronwilson
Vendor
Interesting comments, here are a few more:
First, many of us were punching down 66 blocks long before there was Cat5 and certainly before there were BICSI Installer guidelines for it. During that time, it was 'correct' to terminate the wiring by splitting the pairs that far. As far as I can tell, it is still a correct method for terminating Cat3.
Second, I have always believed if there is more than one way to accomplish a task, my skills are more valuable the more I know about the different methods. I may go to work for someone next week who wants a particular task done one certain way, and i am far better off if I know that method and can do it sucessfully (provided of course it is correct for the installation). Personally I do things different ways depending on the situation.
Third, since it is a correct termination of Cat3 wire to untwist and put one wire in each slot, keeping the twist and pair in one slot in a Cat5 compliant style would be akin to using Cat5 jacks on Cat3 wire. It is extra effort and possibly expense with no measurable return.
Personally I can punch the whole block down, punch the whole block turned up, and I can also do it Cat5 compliant with each pair in a slot. If you are really not able to comfortably terminate a 66 block with both methods or have a hard time keeping them straight, this may not be your cup of tea.
Always more than one point of view!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
First, many of us were punching down 66 blocks long before there was Cat5 and certainly before there were BICSI Installer guidelines for it. During that time, it was 'correct' to terminate the wiring by splitting the pairs that far. As far as I can tell, it is still a correct method for terminating Cat3.
Second, I have always believed if there is more than one way to accomplish a task, my skills are more valuable the more I know about the different methods. I may go to work for someone next week who wants a particular task done one certain way, and i am far better off if I know that method and can do it sucessfully (provided of course it is correct for the installation). Personally I do things different ways depending on the situation.
Third, since it is a correct termination of Cat3 wire to untwist and put one wire in each slot, keeping the twist and pair in one slot in a Cat5 compliant style would be akin to using Cat5 jacks on Cat3 wire. It is extra effort and possibly expense with no measurable return.
Personally I can punch the whole block down, punch the whole block turned up, and I can also do it Cat5 compliant with each pair in a slot. If you are really not able to comfortably terminate a 66 block with both methods or have a hard time keeping them straight, this may not be your cup of tea.
Always more than one point of view!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
franklin97355
Technical User
Sorry, but the original question and the link provided by ANFPS26 were about cat3 cable on 66 blocks. In the link there also was reference to cat5 on 110 blocks.
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- #12
TelNetSystems
Technical User
I hate to get involved in this discussion, since it seems to have digressed from the original question rather significantly. However, I keep seeing people say the original question referred to Category 3 or Category 5. I've read the original question five or six times now, and I am quite certain he doesn't say anything about what grade of cabling and 66 block termination he intends to use. All he says is that it is his first "telephone" cabling job, he has prior CAT5 experience, and the installer recommends using 6P6C USOC jacks and 66 blocks. I can see why we would assume he intends to use Category 3 because of the 6P6C USOC jack _recommendation_, but it is just an assumption as far as I can tell.
For Wally130:
Category 3 and Category 5 termination on 66 blocks has been addressed already in this thread. However, 6P6C USOC jacks and 66 Blocks are the "standard" telephone cable installation... if your building is older or your cable installer does not keep up with current standards. The minimum you should consider for a new installation is Category 5 8P8C jacks, Category 5 cable, and Category 5 66/110 blocks or patch panels. Category 5e cable and termination is recommended. 8P8C jacks will accept most telephone cables, and if you wire them with the 568A wiring scheme the first two pairs will be compatible with the USOC wiring scheme. This is much better than what is needed for basic telephone service, but it allows your wiring to handle current needs and future applications with minimum upgrading.
Check with your telephone system installer and see if he uses all three pairs or only the first two. If he only uses the first two, go with Category 5 or Category 5e parts and 568A wiring. If he uses all three pairs, ask him if he can install using the 8P8C jacks and 568A wiring. If he says no, then you may want to look at his experience and qualifications again. Any competent installer should be able to work within this system.
I hope this is helpful to you. If you have any questions about this, just ask.
Good Luck,
David Hall
For Wally130:
Category 3 and Category 5 termination on 66 blocks has been addressed already in this thread. However, 6P6C USOC jacks and 66 Blocks are the "standard" telephone cable installation... if your building is older or your cable installer does not keep up with current standards. The minimum you should consider for a new installation is Category 5 8P8C jacks, Category 5 cable, and Category 5 66/110 blocks or patch panels. Category 5e cable and termination is recommended. 8P8C jacks will accept most telephone cables, and if you wire them with the 568A wiring scheme the first two pairs will be compatible with the USOC wiring scheme. This is much better than what is needed for basic telephone service, but it allows your wiring to handle current needs and future applications with minimum upgrading.
Check with your telephone system installer and see if he uses all three pairs or only the first two. If he only uses the first two, go with Category 5 or Category 5e parts and 568A wiring. If he uses all three pairs, ask him if he can install using the 8P8C jacks and 568A wiring. If he says no, then you may want to look at his experience and qualifications again. Any competent installer should be able to work within this system.
I hope this is helpful to you. If you have any questions about this, just ask.
Good Luck,
David Hall
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1
- #13
I would agree it is dated and even has content I either disagree with or don't quite follow such as "Krone or BIX being manufacturer specific". They are all specific to their type of IDC. Take it for what it's worth...a free "cabling 101" tutorial. I've seen much worse.
I propose this however, why is there a need to install application specific systems. That is, why separate voice from data and have two different types of cabling and connectivity. Cat5 is cheap. Voice doesn't care if it's on cat5. Terminate everthing on the either...110, BIX or Krone. You already have data and cat5 experience, your're phone guy can run cross-connects on any of the other IDC types just as easily as 66 blocks. I would even make all work area outlets the same type. It's more forward thinking.
Jeff
I propose this however, why is there a need to install application specific systems. That is, why separate voice from data and have two different types of cabling and connectivity. Cat5 is cheap. Voice doesn't care if it's on cat5. Terminate everthing on the either...110, BIX or Krone. You already have data and cat5 experience, your're phone guy can run cross-connects on any of the other IDC types just as easily as 66 blocks. I would even make all work area outlets the same type. It's more forward thinking.
Jeff
jerryreeve
Vendor
I am going to also put my $0.02 in but the original tech spec'd out 6p6c usoc jack's for this. This is fairly specific in that I am reading that the tech will need 3 pairs (the 6c [conductor] portion of the spec) in a 6p (the 6p indicates 6 position) the wiring configuration is spec'd as USOC which is to have pair one being the middle pair of pins (3 & 4) pair 2 being the next pair outside of the middle pins (pins 2 & 5) and the third pair being the pins outside of the second pair or pins 1 and 6. color coding for the cable is one of two possibilities either a 3 pair cable with green/blue as first pair, black/yellow being second pair and white/blue being third pair or using cat3,4,5,6 cable then use the white/blue pair for pair one, white/orange pair for pair two and white/green for pair 3 with white/brown unused.
The pinouts at the jack should be:
jack pins 3 pr cat
cable cable
1 white wh/gn
2 black wh/or
3 red blue
4 green wh/bl
5 yellow orange
6 blue green
you can use either punch in jacks (similar to most of the insert jacks that are common for cat 5 work) or screw terminal jacks (the older style but still available)
the pinouts at the 66 block should be sequential in the following repetitive order:
3 pr cat
cable cable
green wh/blue
red blue
black wh/orange
yellow orange
white wh/green
blue green
green wh/brown
red brown
black wh/blue
yellow blue
white wh/orange
blue orange
you can get 8 3 pair cables on each side of a 66m50 block and only 6 cat cables on each side of a 66m50.
btw you should get 89D mounting brackets for the 66 blocks so you can run the cable behind the blocks for a neater starting appearance.
JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com
The pinouts at the jack should be:
jack pins 3 pr cat
cable cable
1 white wh/gn
2 black wh/or
3 red blue
4 green wh/bl
5 yellow orange
6 blue green
you can use either punch in jacks (similar to most of the insert jacks that are common for cat 5 work) or screw terminal jacks (the older style but still available)
the pinouts at the 66 block should be sequential in the following repetitive order:
3 pr cat
cable cable
green wh/blue
red blue
black wh/orange
yellow orange
white wh/green
blue green
green wh/brown
red brown
black wh/blue
yellow blue
white wh/orange
blue orange
you can get 8 3 pair cables on each side of a 66m50 block and only 6 cat cables on each side of a 66m50.
btw you should get 89D mounting brackets for the 66 blocks so you can run the cable behind the blocks for a neater starting appearance.
JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com
PhoneGuy2000
Vendor
Just a comment from an old fart. First, there is nothing wrong with BICSI. Second, Cat3 and Cat 5 don't mean anything when you terminate to a USOC wiring scheme such as the 6 position USOC jack (RJ25). Also, I would recommend terminating all 4 of the pairs on the 66 blocks even thought you are not using the brown pair (right now). Later the Telephone guy may need to add a modem or fax or another telephone and he will use this pair and he will be glad you did. Next, I would recommend using some inexpensive telecom backboards. A blue board for the station cables, and add a mushroom board above it to route the jumpers. put a purple board next to your blue board for the telephone guy to terminate his switch tails to. And lastly, there is a lot to be said for being forward thinking but that may include thinking different than you do now. At some point (and it is happenning now) voice and data will converge and you will start seeing the voice and data terms disappear. All the cables will terminate to a patch panel and cables will be multipurpose. Moves and changes will be as simple as moving a patch cord and moving the phone. No more expensive service calls to have a phone moved 30 feet down the hall.
thanks for listenning...
thanks for listenning...
jerryreeve
Vendor
I tried to be careful in only using the word "cat" to talk about a type of cable(as labled on the cables) and not a wiring scheme above. sorry if it confused the issue.
JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com
JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com
PhoneGuy2000
Vendor
My message was not in response to what you said Jerry... Above some of the people are trying to confuse the matter. The original question was about the USOC 2 Pair Telecom connection. If you had to, you could run that on an 18/4 cable. I can run 10baseT on a barbed wire fence if I had to. The big thing is, industry standards are good, follow a few simple rules and we can all play nice in the telecom arena...
jerryreeve
Vendor
barb wire fence?? would that produce "spurious" signals??
JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com
JerryReeve
Communications Systems Int'l
com-sys.com
PhoneGuy2000
Vendor
Just trying to make a point... data is not a mystery. As you increase the frequency data travels down a wire, the signal rides less in the copper and more on skin-effect or on the surface. In some case (such as broadband video, the signal even rides in the dielectric faom that seperates the center conductor fromt he sheild. In your case, voice is a low frequency signal and really only needs a path to get the call from one end to the other. 10baseT is not much beefier than your voice conversation. If you always try to terminate all pairs of all cables at the closet end, if someone needs to, they can change the jacks to what ever they need. Your phone guy will be happy if you do so.
daronwilson
Vendor
Just a couple concerns on that last post, please keep in mind that when we increase the throughput of the data on twisted pair, we use different encoding schemes to achieve the overall speed, not merely an increase in frequency.
I've never heard the premise that signal rides in the dielectric of a broadband cable. The dielectric is the insulator between the center conductor carrying the signal and the shield which is at ground potential (or should be). Generally as overall diameter of the coax is increased, the overall attenuation/loss decreases as well as the power handling capabilities. Of course as RF frequency increases, so does loss in a given cable. I'd be very interested to hear more about your theory of the signal traveling IN the dielectric.
Another thing is that most of the phone/voice we were dealing with on cat3 was analog. The data we are discussing is digital.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
I've never heard the premise that signal rides in the dielectric of a broadband cable. The dielectric is the insulator between the center conductor carrying the signal and the shield which is at ground potential (or should be). Generally as overall diameter of the coax is increased, the overall attenuation/loss decreases as well as the power handling capabilities. Of course as RF frequency increases, so does loss in a given cable. I'd be very interested to hear more about your theory of the signal traveling IN the dielectric.
Another thing is that most of the phone/voice we were dealing with on cat3 was analog. The data we are discussing is digital.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
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