Table styles problem

[sophisticatedpenguin]

Hi,

Does anyone have any advice about setting up and using table styles in Word 2003? I've set one up specifying font size, paragraph spacing and text positioning but applying it to a table doesn't seem to give the table those characteristics.

Thanks,
Katie

 

[xlhelp]

Hi, Katie.

This should really be as simple as highlighting the text and then typing the name of the style in the style box on the formatting toolbar where it usually say "Normal"

Can you describe what kind of problems you are having?

Canadian eh! Check out the new social forum Tek-Tips in Canada.
With the state of the world today, monkeys should get grossly insulted when humans claim to be their decendents

 

[sophisticatedpenguin]

Hi,

When I apply the style, it does apply the borders correctly, and makes the header row bold as I specified. But the paragraph spacing and text positioning that I specified in the style does not get applied.

Thanks,
Katie

 

[SkipVought]

Please be specific regarding 1) the intended format results and 2) the applied formats in your style and 3) the results you actually observe.

Skip,

_{Just traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE!}

 

[sophisticatedpenguin]

The style is based on a style that was already built in: "Table Classic 1, Table" (this has a border above and below the header row, a border below the last row and vertical borders except at the outside edges).

I then modified the style to have:

Header row specifically: bold text formatting

Whole table:

Font: Arial 9pt
Text position: centred
Paragraph spacing: no space before, no space after
Line spacing: single

When I apply this to a table in the document, the following happens:

Correctly applied:
borders
bold font in top row

Not applied:
9pt text (stays at 11)
text centred (stays left aligned)
no space after paragraph (stays at 12pt after)

Hope this is enough info. If there's anything else I should specify, please let me know.

Thanks,
Katie

 

[MakeItSo]

The style is based on a style that was already built in

And therein may lie all your problem. Your paragraph settings like line spacing are probably simply overridden by those of the built-in style.
Base your custom table style on "no style" and retry.

Cheers,
MiS

[navy]"We had to turn off that service to comply with the CDA Bill."[/navy]
- The Bastard Operator From Hell

 

[sophisticatedpenguin]

Hi MiS,

Unlike for para styles, there doesn't seem to be an option to base a table style on 'no style'. Also, shouldn't my settings in the table style modify the built-in style, as in my style will be the same as the built-in one but with the modifications I make?

thanks,
Katie

 

[TonyJollans]

Table styles in 2003, and even now to a certain extent, are not really fit for purpose. What they do depends, in part, on your Normal style. I must admit to forgetting all the details but, if memory serves, your Normal style will override some of your Table style settings, if it has ever been changed from its default.

Enjoy,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We want to help you; help us to do it by reading this: Before you ask a question.

I'm working (slowly) on my own website

 

[sophisticatedpenguin]

Hi Tony,

Lovely ... thanks for the warning!

Katie

 

[fumei]

I will concur with Tony re: table styles. When they first came out I thought "FANtastic". Great! Unfortunately, to call them touchy would be gentle. Flakey is more like it. They can work, but you can not ever take them for granted. They are tricky and not 100% reliable.

I wish they did work well, but alas, they do not.

For example, if you create a table style for Whole Table, then you can not use (although you can create one) a header Row style that is different. It is one or the other, after all "WHOLE" table means just that.

However, you can get around things by using a normal paragraph style in conjunction with table styles.

So say, you have a WholeTable style (14pts blah blah), but you want the header row to be 18pts, red...yadda yadad.

You can apply the WholeTable style to...the whole table (including the header row), but then...apply a Paragraph style (MyTableCrapHeader) to the first row. Paragraph styles override table styles.

Note though, because it is a Paragraph style, you will have to adjust the Cell margins to 0 if you want to use any Shading. Also Borders need to be explicitly fixed.

All in all, again, table styles...great idea, poor execution.

Gerry

 

[tf1]

Set up your table and save it as an AutoText item. As the other say, Table Styles are not really fit for purpose.


Regards: Terry

 

[fumei]

Totally agree. Depending on your requirements have a blank table as an AutoText is a great idea. How...ever, I suspect you want to be able to create a dynamically sized table. If this is so, then AutoText would not work.

Unless of course you have a (fixed size) AutoText table, inserted it, and then dynamically alter it after the fact.

Weird, but do-able.

Gerry

 

[sophisticatedpenguin]

Well, it seems that table styles are OK for getting the borders right but that for anything else such as font size or paragraph spacing I'm better off applying a paragraph style over the top. So I don't know why Microsoft bothered putting all the font and paragraph options in the table style settings ...

Thank you all very much for your assistance.
Katie

 

[fumei]

So I don't know why Microsoft bothered putting all the font and paragraph options in the table style settings ..."

Well they DO work. A table style for WholeTable with, say, FontSize= 18, Paragraph SpacingBefore = 10pts, SpacingAfter= 14pts, will in fact does just that. It will apply that format to the table.

The problem lies when you want anything different.

Gerry

 

[Markus4]

Hi Katie,

I agree with all the others who said that best you save your table as autotext and modify the text in this table with paragraph styles.

I have never used table styles because in my scope* I did not see the need for them:
- Word is a computer program to create the documents I need.
- A table in a Word document is a grid in which text is displayed.
- When I create a document I have to do a page setup.
- My texts in these documents "float" in the pages according to what I had set the page(s) up.
- Setting the page(s) up can happen only once (whether during or before creation of the document).

So why should setting a grid where paragraphs of text go be treated different? To me a layout of a table belongs** rather to "page" than "paragraph".

If you really want to see table styles work I'd recommend to switch to OpenOffice. To me MS Office seems to never attain this level.

Regards,

Markus

____________
* I hope I'm using this word correctly. I also thought of "eyesight". Comments are appreciated.

 

[fumei]

To me a layout of a table belongs** rather to "page" than "paragraph"."

Hmmm. Not to me. There is no real "page" in Word. The most important aspect of Word, IMO, is in fact Paragraph.

"- My texts in these documents "float" in the pages according to what I had set the page(s) up."

I have to disagree. The structural format of text is according to, primarily, the Style of the Paragraph. True, Page Setup seems to be the overriding factor...but this is incorrect. For example (exaggerated for clarity):

You use Page Setup and make the margins Left 2.9", and Right 2.9".

What happens?

Default style (i.e. Normal if it has not been modified) will make the text appear constricted in the middle of the page.

The quick brown fox jumps over the
lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog.^p
The quick brown fox jumps over the
lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog.^p
The quick brown fox jumps over the
lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog.^p

However......make a "WideText" Paragraph style, with Indentation set as Left -2.9, Right -2.9. Apply to Paragraph(2).

What happens? The text is "outside" the margins set by Page Setup.

The quick brown fox jumps over the
lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog.^p
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.^p
The quick brown fox jumps over the
lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog.^p

In other words, the Paragraph style overrides ANYTHING set up (regarding format) by Page Setup.

Gerry

 

[Markus4]

Hi,

I'm still not sure whether to use table styles at all. They do not fit into my own system of only character and paragraph styles*. But I want to learn, so I posted my point of view about table styles in this thread.
I just re-read my post. As the OP is about how to use table styles and my post is about whether to use them at all, I'd like to ask: was my post, according to forum rules, rather off-topic?

Regards,

Markus
_____________
* For me, styles in a Word-document can be assigned to principal "areas" (text, letterhead) and several "sub-areas" (text -> text itself | headings | foot-/endnotes | TOCs/indices, letterhead -> letterhead itself | headers/footers). I can send you a longer (maybe lengthy) explanation if you want to. My system works very well - for years, and in different environments.

 

[tf1]

I've been a power Word user for many years and I have never used Table Styles. I use custom Styles inside tables and keep a few Tables stored as AutoText.

My reasons for this (other than I don't believe Table Styles are up to the task) is that:

1. Tables are easy to create
2. In documents where I use many tables, they are usually identical, so AutoText is the natural solution as well as being faster.

One trick to remember with tables is that when you insert a new table, it is assigned the default table style: you can remove all the formatting by using the TableUpdateAutoFormat command, ctrl+alt+u to remove the borders and other garbage that may be hangoing onto the table style.

Regards: Terry

 

[Markus4]

Hi Terry,

thank you. I'm inclined to believe that in my last post I couldn't use English language correctly to convey my point-of-view.

Regards,

Markus