System hang

[osuman]

My computer randomly hangs while trying to use it. It will always happen before Windows is fully loaded. It will also occur while the BIOS is loading or while I'm editing the CMOS settings. When it hangs, the screen goes blank, and the HD activity light stays on and the power and reset button don't work, forcing me to switch off the power at the power supply. It doesn't seem to happen when I do a specific thing or after a certain amount of time. It appears random but is always within the first couple minutes after turning on my comp. It started happening and got progressively worse. I didn't install any new hardware or software or download anything. The first odd symptom I noticed was that when I would leave my computer for a little while, windows would be telling me I need to restore my active desktop. However, the system would be unresponsive and I would have to turn off the power at the P/S. Things then got worse quickly and windows wouldn't even load before it would hang and lose the video.

Since it happens w/o the OS being involved at all I'm convinced it must be a hardware problem or possibly a BIOS virus. The only components being used when editing the CMOS is the M/B, proc, RAM and video card. I have two sticks of RAM and tried using both of them one at a time and in different slots but the problem persists. I wouldn't think the video card could cause an error of this sort so my best guess is that it's the proc or M/B.

I don't know much about viruses of this sort but I do use anti-virus software and it was last updated about two months ago. Could it cause this sort of error and will flashing my BIOS possibly fix it? Also isn't a BIOS upgrade supposed to be free from the manufacturer or will I have to buy something?

Any suggestions or futher troubleshooting tips would be appreciated.

 

[Accessdabbler]

You may have a faulty power supply. You can test it with a voltmeter. Your motherboard manufacturer may also have a motherboard monitoring utility that can tell you what the voltages are and the temperature of your CPU.

 

[mudskipper]

"I have two sticks of RAM and tried using both of them one at a time" -- Good for you! Assuming that both sticks are not bad, you can be pretty sure that your RAM is not the culprit. It still is possible that RAM timings in BIOS, RAM incompatibility with MB, or some other fool thing is responsible--but not real likely.

Yeah, you sound like you have a hardware issue (or setting in BIOS, etc). Don't forget, however, that anything hooked to the computer can be a culprit (including keyboard/mouse) even if they are not actively being used. If, for example, your sound card has a short in it--this could use a problem just from being plugged in! Also, your power supply is always suspect in a problem like yours.

You could try flashing your BIOS (that is free--download it from the motherboard manufacturer's website and follow the directions carefully). Before you do that, you might try clearing CMOS first to see if it clears up.

As for a virus that affects the BIOS. They will trash your BIOS, but not infect it (to my knowledge). If you had a virus affecting your BIOS, you should pretty well have major problems. It does not sound like a virus to me--you should not have a virus resident in memory yet if you cold boot and immediately go into CMOS setup and lock up.

If you are overclocking your system, then put it back--this could be enough to cause your issues.

Also, when it hangs, you said that the power button does not work. On an ATX system, you often have to hold the power button in for some time (sometimes up to about 10 seconds) for it to shut off.

Your reset button, however, should work fine. Are you able to use the reset button under normal circumstances?? If not, then it is likely hooked up incorrectly on your motherboard.

I know that this is a whole mish-mash of info, but I hope that it helps you in some way!! Mudskipper
___________________________________________________________________________________

Groucho said it best- "A four year-old child could understand this! Quick! Run out and find me a four year-old child: I can't make heads nor tails out of this!"

 

[cdogg]

A lot of questions, but I'll do my best!

1) You're on the right track. The problem definitely sounds hardware related. What I would do is remove every peripheral, PCI card, and IDE device from the PC that you don't need (sometimes NIC cards and legacy hardware can conflict), leaving just video, CPU, RAM, hard drive, and mobo. Does that make a difference?

2) BIOS updates are free from the vendor's website, or at least I've never seen one that you had to pay for. I highly doubt that you have a virus problem, though there's a slight chance. Wouldn't hurt to do a full scan.


To be honest, it sounds like you have a failing power supply or damaged CPU. ~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[Stealer]

Before anything make sure all your fans are spinning.

Stealer

 

[osuman]

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't think it was a virus issue either so I'll try removing all the peripheral hardware first.

In response to mudskipper, my reset button normally does work but not when the system has hung as I described. I haven't held the power button down for 10 seconds but will give it a try. And yes, it is an ATX case.

If I get a voltmeter to check the P/S what am I looking for? Spikes, incorrect voltages? and how do I know what the voltages should be.

All the fans spin and I don't think it's a thermal issue since the proc feels the same temp (not hot at all) when I first boot it or when it hangs.

 

[Accessdabbler]

P/S should output 3 voltages: 12V, 5V and 3.3V.

If the voltages are too low by 10% or more, the P/S is dying.

Unplug the power supply from the motherboard (after its off!). The Black lead on the voltmeter should connect with a black wire, the Red lead should connect with the yellow wire. This should read ~12V. Be careful, don't want you to shock yourself!

Finally, you say the CPU "feels" the same temperature? You're not touching the CPU are you?

 

[zlito]

Remove every thing except the video card, memory leave your mouse and keyboard plugged in and boot up. Boot up several times and look at the screen for any problems. Some mainboard makers have trouble shooters you can run from floppy disks, I would try this if your board has it. If your system loads fine after a few trys then add hardware one at a time untill you find whats bad. A idea do you have an antivirus program and is it up to date? If so run it and check all files and programs! Is the computer in an area where it gets free airflow? Please ether read the manual or check the fans and power supply. Loading this from the post will stop a computer if there is a

 

[osuman]

Accessdabbler,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I am touching the CPU. It's a slot A type and I'm touching the side opposite of the heatsink where there is plastic casing. Is there a reason why that would be bad?

 

[Cindy1]

It can overheat or just go bad, but those cpu's tend to be more durable because they don't have the pins. When You turn your computer on does your keyboard flash? Can you boot to the floppy drive with a windows startup diskette and access the hard drive like that? Do you have another hard drive you could use to test this one? You could also clear the cmos or take out the battery for 10 sec. (while the computer is off) that will reset the configuration of the computer.
Keep us updated,
Cindy

 

[osuman]

Ok,
I played around with it some more and here's what happened. I took out everything except the ram, proc and video card. It seemed to run fine when booting to a floppy or the cmos edit screen. That is, it didn't hang and lose the video signal. I then plugged in the cd-rom drives and it hung immediately. I disconnected those and connected the hard drive. When it booted, windows almost completely loaded up before it froze. That's farther than it's made it before as usually it will only make it about half way through the windows loading process.

I got a hold of a volt meter and did the best I could at checking the power supply. I wasn't sure quite how to check the voltages coming out of the harness that plugs into the M/B since the case switch has to be pushed for the p/s to even power up. However, I checked the voltages in the plugs for the hard drive and atapi devices and found that both leads only have 11.4 volts instead of 12. I did check the plug that goes into the mobo and found that I could read voltages from two of the wires when the other side was connected to the ground. Both wires, a green one and a red one (i think), showed 5 volts.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that when the system hangs one of the fans changes pitch. It seems that the pitch goes down, indicated the fan slowed down.

The low voltages on the devices that make it hang and the change in pitch of the fan(s) all put together seems to more strongly point toward the power supply. Also, I'm not sure if I messed it up, but my p/s fan quit spinning. I know it was that one because I unplugged the other two.

Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Cindy1]

To check the fan on the power supply take a paperclip and jump the green and black wire that go to the motherboard from the power supply. That is also how you check the voltage, while it's running put black on black and put the red on the other colors you want to read. It is not uncommon for a power supply to go expecially if you leave it on all the time. The fans tend to go easily also if you do that. That is a pretty cheap fix if that is it. Make sure there is nothing in the way of the fan.
Keep us updated,
Cindy

 

[osuman]

Update,
I replaced the power supply but no dice. It seems to have the exact same problem as before. I tried changing a few settings in my CMOS, such as upping the core voltage, and disable the L1, L2 cache. Nothing seems to work really. I notice it hangs pretty consistently when trying to restart the computer using a soft method, such as the through the CMOS or ctrl-alt-delete. It will fail when restarting even if nothing is plugged into it except the video card, ram, and proc. I'm thinking it's the motherboard. Any thoughts?

 

[Philbong]

I had a Problem with my Computer i had put together my self! Basically for some stupid and idiotic reason i managed to put the heat sink on the wrong way round. Check that out just in case !?

 

[Kocky]

Hello,

Be sure to check that your ide devices are setup right. If you have two devices on one IDE channel than one has to be the master and the other one the slave.

Have you also tried to re-install you Operating System ?
This might help. Check if you have a internal modem in your system. These devices usally cause hangups. Especially software modems.

Be sure that there is not a protected music cd in your cd-rom drive. The new music cd's that are being published have a copy protection built in. If there is such a cd in your drive and it automaticly is started the system will hang.

Check if the video card that you have installed isn't to "new" for your motherboard. It could be possible that your motherboard has a AGP port version 1.0. The newer video cards (like the GeForce range) depend on an AGP port of type 2.0. It delivers higer voltage to the card. I had a problem with this once because a had an older motherboard on wich I installed a to modern video card. It caused random hangups.

You can also trie to "ground" your computer to eliminate static electricity. You can do this by connecting a metal wire to the pc-case and the other end of the wire on for example the heater or any other metallic object.

I hope any of the above tips might help you.

Good luck,

Pascal.