SX-2000: LW29, a few PLIDS left and no extra DNIC(MC330) cards! 1

pichels · May 30, 2006

Hi all,

I have been scouring our system for a few extra PLIDS - only find 3 more that are "out of service".
Then, "config long 2" shows I have slots open in the second cabinet only?
Config Long 3 & 4 are all full: slots 1 -12.
Am I reading this correctly?

Can someone help me figure out if I can install another MC330 - DNI line card?
We have some ONS slots but really need Digital or DNI PLIDS.
If so, I priced them at around $1600 - is that correct?

We also aare "out" of phones adn have new employees starting each week!
We'll need more superset 1's, 401's,420's or 4DN's.
BUT, should we just purchase newer 4015/4025's instead since if we decide to go to a 3300 in the future?
Is there a big difference in price between the 400's and 4000's?

We are looking at a 3300 since we were advised to upgrade to LW34.
Our old mail server is unsupported as well.
Should we upgrade at the price of $15-20,000 for software w/ a new T1 and DNIC or purchase a 3300 at around $28,000 with discounts?

Would we be throwing money away to purchase a software upgrade tp LW34 for the SX-2000 instead of moving to a new hardware platform?

Please advise, if possible, thanks!

SP

MitelInMyBlood · May 31, 2006

I would have to see your Dimension & Features Display form (DIM A F D) before I could comment on your options for expansion. I sould also want to see a complete Config Long of the entire machine.

That said, LW29 is pretty old software and SS400 series instruments are also beginning to show their age. What processors do you have, MC-II or MC-III? Personally I wouldn't spend another penny on LW29 machine. It desperately needs major upgrading, so much so that a new 3300 would be your best approach, again, IMO.

If you're at all considering a 3300, steer clear of the secondary (used) market. Don't let some hack sell you a bill of goods. You might be able to pick up something cheap but you could wind up stuck with not being able to upgrade past release 6 or expand it. New licensing constraints make it pretty difficult if not totally impossible to add users or upgrade software unless the machine is of strictly legit origin. The secondary shops might be able to help you with some used line cards and used phones but you don't want a used 3300 at any price unless maybe to use for parts salvage.

What does the $28,000 buy you? We'd need to see the bill of materials you're getting for that price before commenting.

pichels · Jun 1, 2006

Hi MIMB,

Thanks again for answering my post and hopefully there isn't too much detail below - let me know if you need anything info further clarified.

1. When I enter Dim AFD - there are no further forms?

2. Below is my "Config_long_all" info.
(Sorry, I didn't know if I could attach files in this forum?!?)

3. Looks like we have two MC-III's?

4. We are talking to TDS now for options of upgrading to LW34 w/ extra T1, etc. for around $16K or a new 3300 for around $28-32K, still awaiting quotes.
We used to be partnered with Mitel Direct in Milwaukee, Wi.
They no longer have a rep for us...

5. Here is a quote from Mitel Direct for an upgrade:
(Is it worth the trouble?)

Quote for OPS Man, PRI and upgrade:

Total Price: $16,564
Pricing excludes taxes. Pricing valid for 60 days from the date of this quote.

Qty Part Number Description Unit Sell Ext Sell
SX-2000 Hardware
1 9125-100-270-NA PRI N.A. Hardware Package $2,520.00 $2,520.00
SX-2000 Software
1 9125-533-002-NA 2nd Digital Link Software $2,000.00 $2,000.00
1 MK082DA LW 29/30 to LIGHTWARE 33 Software Upgrade $9,240.00 $9,240.00
Management System
1 9148-000-025-NA OPS Man Node Package $2,520.00 $2,520.00
Discounts
1 System Discount -$3,933.16 -$3,933.16
EQUIPMENT SUB-TOTAL $12,346.84
Services
Installation and Design
24 53000253 Implementation & Design $107.00 $2,568.00
4 53000975 Project Management $107.00 $428.00
First Year Support
1 PartsWarranty 1st Year Parts Warranty $0.00 $0.00
1 Support24X7 1st Year 24x7 Labor Support $1,221.00 $1,221.00
SERVICES SUB-TOTAL $4,217.00

TOTAL PRICE (not including taxes) $16,563.84

6. Quote from ESG for a "new" 3300(Originally Mitel?)

3300 Migration Option

Qty Part # Description Sell Price Extnd'd Price
1 3300 LX CONTROLLER 512M $6,500.00 $6,500.00
1 Power Cord Pack NA $26.00 $26.00
2 DUAL FIM 820NM MUTI MODE MMC $500.00 $1,000.00
33 SS4025 DK GREY BACKLIT - replaces 3DN and 4DN phones. $325.00 $10,725.00
Software Licenses
1 (AMC) 3300 6.1 MX/LX BASE SOFTWARE $2,500.00 $2,500.00
1 SX2K Digital Link/3300 Network Link Migration - (SX2000 to be returned) N/C
Enterprise Manager
1 (AMC)ENTERPRISE MGR 2.1 W OPS 7.3 STD $4,000.00 $4,000.00
Installation Services
1 Misc. MDF Misc Hardware Allowance $250.00 $250.00
1 CSM Enterprise (i) 5 Element with 1 year of Monitoring $3,159.00 $3,159.00
40 WWCC Database Migration, Programming and configuration, Hardware Installation and test, and (I)view Service. $107.00 $4,280.00
4 Training Hours Training - End user Phone $107.00 $428.00
8 Training Hours System Overview Training - $107.00 $856.00
8 Help Desk Hours On Site Help Desk Support After Cut-over (Tech and Coordinator) $107.00 $856.00
1 Warranty/Service One Year Limited Parts and Labor Warranty Incl.
1 System Discount -$2,500.00 -$2,500.00
Subtotal: $34,580.00
Quote based on Data Network compliance for a VOIP implementation - see Mitel Engineering Guidelines
DataSets are not supported on the Mitel 3300
****NOTE: WE would "pass" on the Enterprise Manager! (-$4K =~$28K)

7. Here is a quote from TDS for support - Maint contract?

In the meantime, I have attached the information and rates for maintenance on the current system. I am still investigating whether support would be offered on the existing system, I would guess because of the age of the system, we could only offer "best effort" until it is upgraded.

Our annual rate is as follows:
8X5: $ 5,006.75
24X7: $ 5,909.75

Which includes:

• On-site expert technicians
• Reduced labor rates for moves,adds and changes
• Guaranteed response times
• Technical Engineering Consultation
• Repair and/or replacement for normal hardware failure
• Replacement of defective handsets and cords
• Your choice of 24/7 coverage or an 8–5 business hour plan
• Database backup and maintenance patches
• PBX monitoring options available

8. This is a website where I found the MC330 and an ONS line cards:

Link:

http://www.codemicro.com/store/check_price.php?partid=1885962

mgelfand · Jun 2, 2006

Hello!
Here's a company where you can get discounted phones. If you plan to go with the 3300 IP, I would stick with buying the 4025 Supersets.

Startech Telecommunications
(800) 564-8045

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 2, 2006

PICHELS:

Open a Customer Data Entry (CDE) session - i.e., as if you were going to do some programming.

At the main menu of CDE forms we want to read (not edit) the DIM A F D form.

Optionally at the maintenance screen we can print the form using the command FO DIM A F D (note spacing)

From your CONFIG LONG I can see that you have a Control redundant main controller with MC3 processors. That's good. Your 2nd cabinet appears to be a DSU cabinet and cabinets 3 & 4 are your peripheral cabinets. A lot of the real estate in cabinets 3 and 4 is being consumed by numerous analog trunk cards, i.e., the LS/GS cards, E&M cards, etc. Are you really using all those trunks? Any chance of consolidating them onto fewer cards?

Quite likely you can add additional peripheral cabinets to your esxisting system, depending on the level of MFRD (Mitel Feature Resource Dimensions) you originally bought. This is why I was interested in seeing your Dimensions & Feature Display (DIM A F D) form - that form will tell us where we stand before deciding whether to throw any more money at what you have or to move up to the 3300. Given the proper MFRD levels and software options (as seen in your DIM A F D form, your main control cabinet is likely "capable" of supporting 11 fiber links.

Since your DSU cabinet is very lightly loaded (only 1 DS1 formatter card in it) you therefore only need one fiber link for the DSU which would conceivably (depending on MFRD levels) leave the remaining 10 fiber links available for peripheral cabinets. And by adding the MSA-A-50 option (expanded peripherals) you could even double that and have as many as 20 peripheral cabinets. Each peripheral cabinet holds 12 line cards, meaning (again depending on what your MFRD is) that you could have as many as 3,840 instruments (at 3:1 blocking) all running on that same system. Until we can see your Dimensions & Features Display Form all we can do is guess.

The smallest MFRD ever sold was MFRD-1 which only supports 72 supersets and 192 analog stations. However, that's a software option and you could simply buy a larger MFRD, say MFRD-14, which would give you 144 supersets or MFRD-16, which would give you capability for 300 supersets. Of course you would have to buy an additional peripheral cabinet or two and FIM modules (new Peripf cabinets come bundled with 2 FIM modules and the Peripheral Controller card & power supply included). Used should also, but may not.

Upgrading from Lightware 29 is certainly a good idea since your old LW29 is no longer supported, but I don't see where it would necessarily be mandatory just to get some additional superset capacity. You may already have that capacity now and simply need to install some more peripheral cabinets (and DNIC line cards), but without seeing your Dimensions printout we're shooting in the dark.

This reply is getting lengthy so I'll continue on in the next message.

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 2, 2006

Cont'd from previous reply;

I would abandon the old voice mail system if you're going to buy the 3300.

Why are you getting OPS Man for what appears to be a single node system? If you get Ops Man then Enterprise manager is required. OpsMan is a component of Ent. Mgr.

In a single node (one PBX) your MACS are just as easy (if not easier, IMO) through the ESM web gui interface of the 3300.

You presently have no vacant card slots on your SX2000, but adding one or more additional peripheral nodes would address that.

On the matter of equipment pricing, everything quoted is full list. If you have the luxury of another certified dealer in your area you might be able to get some concessions. Also check into leasing.

Labor rates and maintenance contract rates seem competitive.

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 2, 2006

Finally on the matter of used DNIC and ONS Line cards. Mitel will tell you not to do this and cite a number of reasons, but everyone I know does anyway. Unless you need a specific hardware revision, a card is a card. Handle carefully with your antistatic wrist band on and don't wag them around outside of their antistatic bags.

Both DNIC and ONS cards are plentiful on the used market and there are several secondary market dealers. I would avoid eBay. You might want to compare used card prices with the folks at Dean Enterprises. I understand they offer a year warranty on everything they sell. 1-800-451-2089 they also have a web site, deanenterprises dot com.

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 2, 2006

By the way, the 3340 Global Branch Office package might save you some money if it would fit your requirements. First of all the price of the controller includes the software that was priced separately at $2500 on the 3300 LX, plus it includes the IP network license (not that you would need this). The 3340 package comes with a 3300 MX controller which is software-throttled to support 200 sets. It is field-upgradeable to larger configurations. I believe list price is $5500.

I suppose you know that all of the 3300s will support your old SX2000 peripheral nodes. A dual FIM card is required on the 3300/3340. The 3340 Global Branch Office configuration can support a max of 2 dual FIM modules or 1 dual FIM and 1 dual T1/E1 combo card. The base software load of all the 3300s include support for peripheral node expansion so two peripheral nodes could theoretically be daisy-chained together with a (shielded) 10' (60' max)ethernet cable and operated off of a single fiber link. Ergo the dual fim card could actually support 4 peripheral nodes but still a max of only 200 total lines in the 3340 configuration. If you need more than 200 lines (total analog + digital + IP) then you'll need something bigger than the 3340 Branch.

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 3, 2006

Some additional....

Today you have 144 ports for supersets, 96 ports for ONS, 16 ports for loop start trunks (outbound telco?), 16 ports for E&M trunks (voice mail perhaps?), 24 ports for DID trunks (incoming telco). What are you using the existing DS1 formatter card for?

Depending on what your local telco charges for a T1-PRI, I might want to explore options for getting rid of the LS/GS and DID/Loop Tie trunk cards and replacing those cards with a Universal Network Service Unit (NSU) chassis ($2500 list). This will give you TWO universal T1s in a single cabinet. I would go this way rather than attempting to find a used MC270 card to stick in your DSU cabinet. (The MC270 T1-Pri card has been discontinued and are quite scarce on the used market - I don't think I would want a "used" MC270 anyway).

A case to be made in favor of OpsMan/Enterprise Mgr is that you can automate your backups and automate your future software upgrades plus configure some better alarm monitoring and provide for external notification. This will work on either the SX2000 or 3300 platform, but you'll need to purchase some software options to get it working on the SX2K whereas those options are already included in the base load of the 3300.

A case to be made for keeping & upgrading the SX2K is that it has a dual redundant main control and dual redundant file system. To achieve anything remotely close to this level of "reliability" you enjoy today will require purchasing TWO 3300s and setting them up for "Resiliency". This would also require going to all new IP phones if you wish to extend that resiliency to all of your users. While the 3300 CAN support your existing SX2K peripherals (called TDM devices), the "resiliency" concept does not (yet) extend to those devices (or trunks).

There's a lot of pros and cons on both sides of either of your options, whether to upgrade the SX2K or replace it with a 3300.

If you are moving into (or building) an all new office, the 3300 and all new IP phones is the only thing I would ever consider. But in an existing building with existing voice cabling infrastructure already in place and a substantial investment in your current Mitel system, a simple upgrade and adding another peripheral node and a universal NSU will probably buy you several more years of reliable service life without having to spend cubic dollars doing it.

About the only thing that might happen to your existing SX2K would be a hard drive failure. If you're still running on the original hard drives, proactively replacing them now ($1300 list, each) might be something you'd want to consider including in the upgrade bundle.

New phones: The only new phones still being sold for the SX2K is the SS4025. However, here is one area where I might look to the used market, because the SS420 is still a good multiline display set that can be found refurbished pretty cheaply. Personally I loved the older SS4DN sets.

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 3, 2006

For clarity...
The DIM A F D form we're needing to see can only be accessed through the CDE programming interface with a read function or printed out from the maintenance screen as part of a "formprint" command. Example, Formprint {space} DIM {space} A {space} F {space} D (note spacing between A F and D)

This print job would go to whatever printer was assigned to receive formprints -or- it might go to "LPR 3" which would be the local or default printer assigned to the PC or terminal you are using -OR- there maybe never was a printer defined for formprints. However, as long as you have a printer (local physical printer connected to the PC or a network printer defined as the default printer for your PC) the following command will get what we're needing. Note carefully command syntax and character spacing as before:
FO DIM A F D /PORT LPR3 <PRESS ENTER>

Nothing will happen. That's normal. Wait about 15 seconds for the print job to queue-up then enter the command SHO PRI ALL <PRESS ENTER>
it should tell you there's a print job waiting in queue.
To send the print job to the printer enter the command ENABLE PRINT <PRESS ENTER> Your screen will go blank and your printer should begin printing the form. When the formprint is complete your screen will come back.

pichels · Jun 6, 2006

HI MIMB,

1. Sounds like we'll stick withteh SX2000 and upgrade to LW34.
I've talked to our Sales Rep at MNS and he is putting some numbers together.
Our Maint Contract is up on 8/31/06.
Any other thoughts?

2. I was wondering what will we gain by getting an ISDN PRI w/ software on our SX2000?
It was included on a quote from MNS, look above in this same post.
We were told something like: "error checking and line issues w/ our T1 provider could be more easily solved."?
Make sense?

3. Here is the output for the request FO DIM A F D:

Auxiliary port (LPR3) mode.

Returns to maintenance terminal mode when printing completed.

Strike <CTRL> c to abort printing and return to maintenance terminal mode.

"ENABLE PRINT /NONQUEUED" may be terminated only with <CTRL> c.

** WARNING ** Auxiliary port is unpredictable at baud rates above 2400.
FORMPRINT PAGE 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| DIMENSION AND FEATURE DISPLAY |
| |
| Features Purchased |
| |
| ACD Telemarketer 2000 Extended Agent Groups. . . . . . . No |
| ACD Telemarketer 2000 Skills Based Routing . . . . . . . No |
| Advanced Analog Networking . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| Advanced ARS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Advanced Data. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| ANI/DNIS/ISDN Number Delivery. . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| ANSWER PLUS - Automatic Attendant. . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| ANSWER PLUS - Automatic Call Distribution-I . . . . . . No |
| ANSWER PLUS - Automatic Call Distribution-II . . . . . . No |
| ANSWER PLUS - Mitel Call Distribution. . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| Attendant Language Selection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Autovon Application. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Cov Set. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| DASS II Mixed. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| DASS II Voice I. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| DNI. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| DSS/BLF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Flexible Dimensioning. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| HCI/CTI Advanced Telephony Control . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| HCI/CTI Basic Telephony Control. . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Hotel/Motel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Main Control Redundancy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| Message Center . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MNMS: Configuration Management I . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MNMS: Configuration Management III . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MNMS: Database Access . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MNMS: Fault Management I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSAN/APNSS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| MSDN/DPNSS Data. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Public Network Access . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| MSDN/DPNSS Redirection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Voice I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Voice II. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Voice III . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Voice IV. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Voice V . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN/DPNSS Voice VI. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| MSDN Release Link Trunks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Networked ACD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Peripheral Control Redundancy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| PRI Card - NFAS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| PRI Card - D Channel Backup. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| PRI Card - Remote LAN Access . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| PRI Card - Min/Max . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| PRI Card - Auto Min/Max. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| SMDR - External. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| SMDR - Internal. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Superset 700 Colour. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| T1/D4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| TAPI Support . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2006-JUN-06 12:29:18 TUE WARMAN CONTINUED
FORMPRINT PAGE 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| DIMENSION AND FEATURE DISPLAY |
| |
| Traffic Reporting. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes |
| Trunk Group Busy Status. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No |
| Visually Handicapped Operator Console. . . . . . . . . . No |
| |
| System Configuration |
| |
| ACD Sets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| ACD Telemarketer 2000 maximum Agent ID Appearances . . . |
| Cabinets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 |
| Country. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NA |
| Feature Resources Dimensioning . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 |
| HCI/CTI/TAPI Large Traffic Level . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| HCI/CTI/TAPI Small Traffic Level . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| Machine Configuration . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . FD2 |
| Maximum Key Line Appearances . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 |
| MSDN/DPNSS Resources Dimensioning . . . . . . . . . . . |
| Traffic Level. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 |
| |
| Parameter | Maximum | Used |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ACDII - Agent Groups. . . . . . . . . 1 | |
| ACDII - Agent IDs . . . . . . . . . . 1 | |
| ACDII - Paths . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 | |
| Attendant Consoles. . . . . . . . . . 8 | 1 |
| Attendant Groups. . . . . . . . . . . 12 | 6 |
| Broadcast Groups. . . . . . . . . . . 600 | 269 |
| Busy Lamp Groups. . . . . . . . . . . 1 | |
| Corporate Directory . . . . . . . . . 900 | 449 |
| Datasets. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96 | 6 |
| Digit Blocks. . . . . . . . . . . . . 600 | 186 |
| DTMF Receivers. . . . . . . . . . . . 128 | 24 |
| Hunt Groups . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 | 11 |
| Independent Account Codes . . . . . . 400 | 1 |
| Modems. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 | 0 |
| MSDN/DPNSS Cluster Elements . . . . . 0 | |
| MSDN/DPNSS Remote Directory Numbers . 1 | |
| Multiline Sets. . . . . . . . . . . . 240 | 131 |
| Networked ACD - Rem Agent Subgroups . 1 | |
| Personal Speed Call Blocks. . . . . . 200 | 54 |
| Pickup Groups . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 | 16 |
| PKM devices . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 | 1 |
| Single Line Sets . . . . . . . . . . 752 | 108 |
| System Speed Call . . . . . . . . . . 250 | 214 |
| Trunks. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 204 | 88 |
| Trunk Groups. . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 | 5 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

pichels · Jun 6, 2006

Hi MIMB,

A few questions I can't seem to make out in our config - hope you'll be obliged to answer..
Thanks again for all detailed knowledge and help with the SX2000!

1. I was told we need a peripheral cabinet and MC330 to get extra PLIDS in our system - we have only a few left!!!

2. How many actual phones are in our system?
How can I tell - what commands?
You said 144 supersets plus trunks, etc.
How many analog and how many digital?(EX: SS4DN, 3DN,etc.)

3. We'd like to purchase more extra supersets(5-10) -> wouldn't the SS4015 be the best choice? Why not?

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 6, 2006

Yes, you will need to buy a Peripheral cabinet. This will give you 12 more card slots that you can put some MC330 cards in. A new peripheral cabinet (p/n 50004203) is approx $4370 list price and includes the power supply, peripheral switch controller card and two fiber interface modules (FIMS). One FIM goes in the peripheral cabinet and the other goes in the back of the main controller cabinet. You will need some fiber optic cable to connect them together. This is your cheapest alternative. Let your dealer do it. You might suggest "used" to him, but go with what he says because he will be the one supporting you in the end.

Your MFRD level is 3. Ergo this is a fairly small system, but has the resources in it right now to support a maximum of 240 supersets without much additional investment other than an additional peripheral cabinet and 6 more MC330 DNI line cards. That's all you'll be able to add because that will bring you up to 240, which is the limit of your MFRD.

You do not need to upgrade to LW34, but it wouldn't be a bad idea (if you can get the money) just to get current and be able to get better support. LW29 is no longer supported. Yes, the upgrade is expensive. That's the penalty for putting it off so long. (Pay me now or pay me later) You probably could have saved $4~$5000 in software costs had you kept the system upgraded.

You are getting close to exhausting your system speed call entries. Your MFRD (3) supports a maximum of 250 and you're already at 214. probably some housecleaning here will free some up.

Use the command SYS TOT to get a rough count of what's in your system today (number of trunks, number of assigned instrument types, etc) and compare those numbers to the number of Multiline Sets and Single line sets as shown in your Dimensions form (DIM A F D).

How do your traffic reports look? If you're not maxing-out on trunks then I'd stick with what you have. By and large you'll discover the analog Telco trunks you have today will be cheaper than ISDN-PRI, but ISDN-PRI will get you inbound callerID. ISDN PRI trunks are also better voice quality and modems work better (faster).

I hate to see you make any decision based on what I''ve told you. I'm just trying to present a fair and unbiased view of your situation as I see it, speaking to you as a fellow end-user rather than as a dealer with a vested interest in selling you a new system. Sticking with what you've got and adding the peripheral cabinet, etc. will buy you some time, a couple years perhaps more. However if your business continues growing you're going to want to do a forklift upgrade at some point. Today without making a major investment you can add 96 more superset ports (by adding the periph cab & 6 cards). Only you can determine what your trunking situation is, but since you have the traffic reporting option, you have the tools to do that.

Superset ports can be used for any type of multiline display instrument, 3DN, 4DN ss400 series, SS4000 series, etc. The ports will support any or all of the different types.

MitelInMyBlood · Jun 7, 2006

A couple more things. (unending, I know)

To expand your capacity for additional digital (superset) PLIDS beyond the 96 additional you can get today just by adding the Peripheral cabinet we discussed above, your next step (to go even bigger) would be to purchase a larger dimension size (MFRD). The next size up from where you are today would be MFRD-16 which would increase your total capacity for digital sets (supersets) to 300. It would also increase the number of analog (ONS/OPS) lines to 1360 (today you can only have 752). The larger MFRD comes with a price attached of course ($4200 list) and would require upgrading to LW34 which you've already been quoted.

Sticking with what you've got + adding the periph. cab. and 6 more (maximim) MC330 cards is still going to be the least expensive alternative, though it may only be prolonging the inevitable. You can use only 6 of the additional card slots in the new cabinet for MC330 cards but you could use the remaining 6 for just about anything else (more trunk cards or more MC320 cards).

Of course with the additional peripheral cabinet you're also going to need to have it cabled out to your wiring frame. If all you plan to add is the 6 MC330 cards you only need 4 25-pair cables to get access to the 1st 6 card slots of the new cabinet.

The only thing left for you to ponder is the prudence of investing the additional money in the older system to get the latest software for it (LW34) vs funneling that money toward a brand new system. This for me is a tough call. Granted LW29 is no longer supported (by Mitel) but if your vendor can continue supporting you at LW29 without forcing the LW34 upgrade on you and you're not having any issues, then as much as I'd like to see you get LW34 I might have a hard time cost-justifying it. It's a lot of money that would make a nice dent in the price of a new system, but a whole new system is going to be even more costly than just the software. Decisions, decisions... If you're going to try to keep what you have without breaking the bank the one thing I would do for sure (if it were mine) is put some money in the budget to replace the two hard drives. Beyond that I cannot guide you.

pichels · Jul 10, 2006

Hi MIMB,

I wanted to understand and label our current SX-2000 Light machines/nodes in our phone room.
I don't know what the boxes purpose of functions are?
Meaning, I think I can identify Plane A and B but their is a tape backup box with the front exposed with two ethernet cables coming out of some MC425 or the like cards(I'd have to verify)?

We have three large boxes - front of machines look like two machines fused together.

Then we have one 1/2 box or one PCU looking box connected to the others and a Crit-EYE I think.

Also, a Mitel Mail box and some 33K modems...

Is there a way you can help me identify these machines and hardware?

Many thanks in advance!

SP

MitelInMyBlood · Jul 10, 2006

Of the three large boxes, one of those will have several fiber-optic cables connecting to the right-hand side of its rear. This is your Main Controller. The front of it (with covers removed) will have two MC215AA cards possibly with Ethernet cables protruding from them (one from each). The MC215AA card on the left is called "Plane A" and the card will be in slot 1-1-2. The one on the right is called "Plane B" and the MC215AA card is in slot 1-1-7.

The other two large boxes, those are your two peripheral nodes. I think we decided you'd be adding another one of these. On the back side of these two boxes you should have several large diameter cables (8 cables each) that go over to some type of distribution block where you connect your phones.

The 1/2-sized box is your DSU Node or DSU cabinet. This box has a T1 line connected to it, and if fully-provisioned could have up to a total of 4 T1s going to it.

MitelInMyBlood · Jul 10, 2006

Correction - the 1/2-size DSU cabinet can support up to a total of 4 E1/T1/PRI cards. Each card can accommodate two E1/T1/PRI circuits for a total of 8 T1s (max) in that cabinet.

The thing that looks like a tape backup is exactly that, a tape drive. It is in the front left side of your main controller cabinet. On the subject of upgrades, the tape drive probably needs to be replaced with an RSD (Magneto-Optical) disk drive. I may be wrong but I don't think Mitel offers their O/S upgrades on tape any longer.

pichels · Jul 11, 2006

Hello once again MIMB!

I wanted to thank you for all the superb info you've been helping me with on this forum.
I really appreciate your quick and knowledgeable answers!
This forum's techs are top notch.
And...I have more questions of course. <smile>

I am creating a diagram of our phone room in an open source program called inkscape and will convert to jpg or pdf.
(Didn't want to use Visio - vsd files are hard to convert!)

To reiterate:
(After all the crazy questions I asked you!)

Our basic goal is to get our SX2000 Light software & hardware supported and get more PLIDS & Phones.

1. We are working with two Telecom companies - ESG(MNS told us to deal with them from now on) and TDS.
TDS has cheaper pricing but I "think" they lack the expertise of ESG. I was told ESG were the original Mitel?
ESG got our SX2000 system config right from Mitel too.
TDS had to bring a guy in and check out our system.
The SX2000 upgrade quote breakdown of parts/services between the two are different and a bit confusing - although TDS gives more detail than ESG!
Make sense? Phew...
I really want to choose the right company for expertise and price!
I wouldn't supopse you'd assist me in looking over the quotes? <gulp>
`
2. I know we have to upgrade to LW34 at a cost and that we're willing to do that since it is budgeted already.

3. We need more PLIDS & Phones and supposedly our existing cabinets are full.(holding 12 cards total - 6 ONLY for MC330-DNIC - Digital phones, right?)
Hence, the need for another peripheral cabinet with more DNIC cards and cables to attach to our distribution block, right? FYI: WE are satisfied with analog phones now - we only are interested in planning for new digital phones for new office employees in the future.
From our config(sys tot) it says 240 total digital(MFRD-12 limit of 240 for multiline?) and 131 used in Dim AFD?
Where are the other 13 plids being used?

I see that we have 9 total MC330(16 ports/plids per card?) cards?
Oohhh, I think I see them in each Peripheral node now(config long all!):

3-1-9 --> 3-1-12 - 4 cards
4-1-8 --> 4-1-12 - 5 cards

So, then we can get 6 more cards for 96 total plids/phones with this new cabinet with our current MFRD-12 rating, right?

4. Can we choose one company for Maintenance support and another for product purchase for SX2000 upgrade?
For 24X7 Maint contract: One company offers 6K a yr and the other almost 12K for onsite tech support?(How can that be? Pay there techs less?)
I'm not sure how to ask the vendor how they charge so little? Are they qualified enough? - Our current techs from Mitel Direct in Milwaukee(Wis) are very qualified and I've experienced that fact for the last two years. But, we can't deal with them anymore according to our Mitel Sales guy?
Hence, we are shopping for new product for our upgrade and a new Maint contract!

5. 3 of the 4 card slots(fiber connections) behind the Main controller are filled - is this an issue for future upgrades?

6. For future upgrades to our phone systems - shouldn't we try to have all our MC330 cards installed at once in the new peripheral node to eliminate multiple onsite installation costs? Or would that labor be covered in a Maint support contract?

Thanks for any response(s) and help!

SP

MitelInMyBlood · Jul 11, 2006

1) Find out if TDS is an authorized Mitel Silver or Platinum VAR. If MNS said to use EGS then that's who I'd be tempted to use. You've also cited a very good reason to use EGS. You usually get what you pay for and there's no free lunch. You have a lot invested in your phone system.

2) Fine. LW34 is a very good load.

3) The other 13 PLIDS are either programmed lines that are out of service or they're used for single line sets. Yes, you can have a DNIC-stype single line set. Nice instrument but a heck of a waste of a valuable port resource in an otherwise tight system. One of the PLIDs might also be being used by a DMP (digital music on hold/paging unit) and/or an attendant console or two.

3A) unless you purchase a larger MFRD (software option) the maximum number of DNIC/digital display type telephones (Supersets) you can add is 96. Adding those 96 will require adding 6 more MC330 cards and those 6 added cards will have to go somewhere. Since you're out of real estate that means buying a 3rd peripheral node (12 more card slots, but you can only use 6 of them for DNIC cards because of the limit of your MFRD). Once you add those 6 extra MC330 cards you cannot ever add any more MC330 cards anywhere in your system without purchasing a larger MFRD.

You have MFRD-3 today, not MFRD-12. However, purchasing MFRD-A-16 would be your next step to increase your DNIC PLID capacity to 300 (60 more PLIDs + the 96 you're already going to get, but that feature option is pretty expensive for only yielding 60 more DNIC PLIDs. I'll let your dealer tell you how much.

4) Splitting the account - If I were either dealer I would say no. It's also an invitation for service problems and finger-pointing.

5) No problem. Your machine configuration is "FD2" which means it's a Dual/Redundant Main Controller. The FD2 controller will support a total of 11 fiber links. You have plenty of room for growth in this area. Fully "loaded for bear" that same Main controller of yours will support over 4000 PLIDs (assuming the Expanded Peripherals option).

6) Yes, do everything at once. One bite at the apple.

If you'd be interested, ask EGS if they'd sponsor you to attend a week-long System Admin course. You'd learn a lot and perhaps come home being able to do a great deal of your own Moves Adds & Changes yourself. I don't know the course cost, but it's offered in Atlanta, Costa Mesa, Calif and Kanata, Ontario. Jungle drums say a new training center may be coming soon to Chicago since they closed their Lyndhurst, NJ training center.

MitelInMyBlood · Jul 11, 2006

By the way, for about 1-1/2 times the cost of going to MFRD-16 you can instead go to MFRD-21 which will enable a system maximum of 1600 DNIC PLIDS (100 MC-330 cards and 8 more peripheral cabinets). Here's where you'd start running out of fiber links unless you also purchased the Expanded Peripherals option (which would cut the number of required fiber links in half). Of course with MFRD-21 then you'd also want to increase the traffic level (another option and more money) ;-)

The Expanded Peripherals option (MSA-A-50) would mean that you would go to 3:1 blocking on the PCM links (from a default 1.5:1), but ordinarily that's not a concern. The big old SX2000SG, popular in the mid-late 1980s and early-to-mid 1990s was a 3:1 blocking switch and no one made an isue of it then so it's not an issue now either unless you have an extraordinarily busy PBX (greater than 5000 calls per hour).

Do not let anyone talk you into purchasing MSA-A-35 Flexible Dimensions. It is a huge support headache and recipe for trouble and weird, unexplained problems. The Flex Dim option is a way of reallocating unused system resources in order to avail yourself of additional wanted options (more DNIC PLIDS for example) but I strongly advise against it. Purchase only standard MFRD configurations.

Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!

Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!

SX-2000: LW29, a few PLIDS left and no extra DNIC(MC330) cards! 1

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

MIS

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Technical User

Similar threads

Log in

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor