Strange freeze-ups with ASUS A7N8X-DX & win2k

[yukster]

I bought a spiffy new ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe (w/ SATA RAID, 5.1 Dolby Sound, Firewire, USB 2.0, AGP8x, etc.) last December and built myself a new system with that, an Athlon XP2000+, 512 MB of DDR2100, a Matrox G450, two IBM drives (40 and 80 gig), a Plextor cd burner and Windows 2000 (w/sp3). It ran without any major problems for six weeks and then started freezing up regularly (and I mean a real freeze up-can only get out by rebooting). I don't recall installing any new software around that time and didn't add any hardware. And what's weird is that it freezes up when I'm away from the computer, like in the middle of the night (It occasionally freezes up when I'm doing something, but mostly when the computer's idling).

I immediately checked my fans, temperature, and stuff like that (left the case open all night). All was good (well, I'm assuming that 105-7 degrees isn't out of line for CPU temp... everyone always talks about checking your temp, but they never say what is too hot). I turned off all power saving features. I tested the RAM with Memtest86, reinstalled the OS a number of times, flashed the BIOS and I've updated every driver I can find. I have found that if I disable the on-board sound in the BIOS and run without any power saving options, it will make it through the night. In fact, I thought that I had nailed the problem there, but it froze up several times yesterday (while I was doing stuff).

After the repeated freeze-ups yesterday, I called the store where I bought the board and was told that I shouldn't try to run USB 2.0 with Windows 2000. He recommended doing a clean reinstall and making sure that I didn't install the USB2 drivers. Well it froze up right after that install, so I knew I was in for trouble. On calling him back for more advice, he said that I should run the service pack right after installing the system and before the drivers. Well, doing that totally wreaked havoc (one driver wouldn't install and I got a freeze-up that made my monitor spaz out in a way that I never care to see again). So, I called the guy back, but he had left for the day. The guy I then talked to said that it's probably not a software problem at all and that he'd be happy to test out my system for only $39.99. Hmmm.

So, what do people think? I'm not buying the hardware idea (though I am certainly about ready to RMA this board). It's weird that it ran okay for six weeks and then started freezing consistently. That would have made me think software problem, but the fact that I've wiped the drive and reinstalled the OS several times would seem to counter that idea. It's also weird that it seemed to do okay with the sound and power options off, but then it froze up today. Of course, even if the problem did lie with those two culprits, I'd still need some solution; I can't live without sound and I'd really rather my computer shut it's own monitors off.

I've tried to be as complete as possible here, but if I left something out please let me know. After another complete reinstall with the latest Nvidia drivers and without USB 2.0, it still froze up last night.

Thanks in advance,

Ben

(Oh, and I don't know if this means anything but there was another weird quirk I noticed back when this first started: when I'd start winamp after a freeze up, the play list wouldn't be the last thing I played; it would be something from a while earlier... like freezing up turned back the clock. Oh, and sometimes stuff on my desktop reverts to their old positions or default positions after a freeze up.)

 

[Comtech]

Nicely done, thankyou for the detail, it sure helps in a diagnosis.
Only a couple of other things I can think of to check. Heat may be an issue, if the CPU fan is clogged, and/or the heat sink...
RAM, it's possible it's just not up to the task, maybe try a ram tester

http://www.simmtester.com/

Have you tried it by disabling all power options in BIOS, just leave ACPI enabled, and let Windows handle power management? I know if both are enabled, there can be conflicts.
How about IRQ assignments? Lots of sharing, or is everything on it's own?
Have you the latest device drivers (for vide and sound and such) and Windows updates (besides the service packs)? Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/

 

[oldbear]

Is your memory just one stick or two? If more than one...try different options like just one stick and then the other over a day or two..see if the particular RAM makes a difference. I had a friend who had freezing problems that went away when one of the sticks was removed. can you boot up in safe mode and stiff get the same effect over night? Long ago, freeze ups were often tied to the video driver. Have you checked to see if there are any memory conflicts? Try removing and reloading the video driver or getting the latest one.

 

[spaaski]

Hey Ben.
You say it seems to happen more when the system is "Idle"???
My thoughts on what you could try are:
Ensure you are logged on as Administrator to perform the following.
1. Check the desktop screen saver is turned off as windows defaults a screen saver.
2. Are you using an AGP GForce2 or 4 Graphics card??? If so update your graphic drivers
3. Check your sys tray for what app's are running uninstall the unnecessary ones.
4. Are you sure you have the SP1??? If not sure install it.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;260910

and make absolutely sure that you have the latest SP
5. Windows File Protection problems.....this relates to number 4 but check out this link as it is relative.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;271182

6. Last but not least try to repair/recover windows OS

 

[yukster]

Hey, thanks for all the advice guys... I would have responded sooner but I thought I was gonna get email notification... (I have it marked, but it must not be working).

Let's see, I haven't actually swapped RAM cuz I don't have any more DDR that the single 512 stick I'm using. I've been trying to avoid having to buy anything cuz I'm really hurting for money. But I may just have to do that... and maybe get another power supply to try too.

As far as drivers/OS goes, I have tried several different versions of the Nvidia drivers (the chipset is Nforce 2). I downloaded the very latest version of the Matrox drivers (my vid card). I've reinstalled the OS (windows 2000) several times and I always run SP3 right after I get all the drivers installed.

I didn't really think it could be hardware related because turning peripherals off in the BIOS seemed to help. But, even though it seemed to do best with the sound off, it has still frozen up when it was. Oh, and someone asked about safe mode... it went all night in safe mode without freezing. That was one of the first things that turned me away from the hardware idea.

Well, I've got all the peripherals except the lan turned off; we'll see how she does tonight. Of course, it could be a problem with the Nvidia Memory driver... that doesn't get turned off in the BIOS. Maybe I'll try reinstalling the OS again and not install the Nvidia drivers at all... see how that does for awhile.

I'm still open to any ideas... I'll check for answers again in the morning. Thanks!!

 

[spaaski]

Hey Ben

Are you using multiple user profiles and are you running XP with Multiple desktop support????

\\spaaski

 

[yukster]

I'm running Windows 2000/sp3, not XP. I only have one profile. Not using any screen saver or Windows power options.

Last night I turned off all the integrated peripherals in the BIOS and it didn't freeze up. I'm gonna leave it the same way tonight to make sure that wasn't a fluke.

This brings up a potential solution that I think someone mentioned: IRQs. When I enable a bunch of devices, then tend to pile up on IRQ 20. (Why do systems always do this? My two previous systems piled up on IRQ 11.) What I've never had anyone explain to me is how to change that. I can't find any way to reassign IRQs in Windows or the BIOS.

Actually, I just looked thru the manual again, and there is a setting on the "PnP/PCI" page called "Resources controlled by [Auto(ESCD) | Manual]". However, the manual says to refer to the next page for an explanation of this but the next page is about some other part of the BIOS!! I guess it can't hurt to monkey around with that at this point, but any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

b

 

[spaaski]

Sorry Yukster (Ben)

I had mistakenly sent the earlier reply to you. Please disregard

cheez \\spaaski\

 

[oldbear]

it looks like you have identified that it's a driver problem and not hardware after running in safe mode and not locking up...now comes the good part...figuring out which driver...it's a real pain turning things on one at a time but you appear to be on the right trail. You might even consider one other path...a bios setting may be interfering with the system. If you don't have any luck figuring out which driver...try setting your bios to the one for just basic operation....and then see if you can turn the other setting back on one at a time...this might take a long time to do...I hope you find it before this sort of painstaking work.

 

[oldbear]

do you have a known working older pci video card you could try out? you might want to see if a different video device would make a difference too...just an after thought

 

[yukster]

I talked to an "expert" at the store I bought the board at a little while ago. He put me back on the hardware trail... not that I necessarily think he knows what he's talking about. It's very frustrating that there is so much guess work involved in this.

Anyway, he pointed out that most Windows machines wind up with a bunch of devices sharing an IRQ (said his machine at home - with the same mobo - has 11 things sharing IRQ 9!!) And I have to admit that my other two machines pile up on IRQ 11 and they haven't given me this much grief.

Of course it could still be a driver issue... my combination of Asus/Nvidia Nforce with Matrox video and windows 2000 might be pretty rare. That's actually good advice, oldbear, to swap out video cards... I can take the old 16 mb 3dfx out of my linux box as a test.

Well, on the advice of Mr. Expert, I've swapped my Windows box's 400 watt ps for the 300 watt ps from my linux box... we'll see how that goes. Also looking at RAM prices, though I will probably try the video card idea first.

Again, thanks for your ideas.

b

 

[paparazi]

I am surprised that nobody mentioned flashing the bios, or did they? anyway, on such a new chipset, we the public are testing the product and there will have been several bios revisions already to fix various problems and yours could be one of them.
I know from my own experiences with the Nforce2 chipset that they can be very picky on memory also. Martin Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[yukster]

I can't remember if I mentioned it, but yes, I did flash the BIOS... and have tried three different sets of drivers for the mobo. I do think it's a driver issue; as someone pointed out on another list, this is a very new board and we users do the manufacturers testing for them... we're the guinea pigs.

I think I will order some new RAM tomorrow though... I think I've heard that "Nforce is picky about RAM" thing before.

Swapped power supplies today, but it still froze up... I think I'll try the video card swap tonight.

thnx

 

[SayTen]

TBH I think it's the memory drivers. I have a similar setup:
A7N8X-DLX
AMD XP2600+ 333FSB
2 x 512Mb PC2700 Crucial RAM
NVidia Geforce 4 Ti4200

I had to increase my RAM voltage to 2.8v to get it to not fail on the MemTest86 tests. Mine has a habit of bluescreening while playing games and the errors are regular. ntosknl mainly always in the same place in memory. I reckon that until the drivers mature we're scuppered.

 

[Kocky]

Just had almost the same trouble.
Try running scandisk and let it correct all errors automaticly. Your File Allocation Table might be corrupt or you have bad sectors on your hard drive.

 

[ceh4702]

Asus uses slightly high settings on voltage in the BIOS, try lowering it if you can. You might try Crucial memory. I noticed at the crucial site that usually it lists the recommended memory to use. When I looked at sites like

http://www.newegg.com

it lists memory from crucial that is not on their recommended list. I usually stick to what Crucial website says to buy. In the past on some motherboards I have had memory incompatability problems. If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[rockerfellerz]

Are you using Winamp 3? In my opinion it's a real dog, very slow and buggy.I started using it when it came out, and I'd put some music on at night and more often than not, I'd wake up to find that my PC had frozen up solid. I ditched it for another player and the trouble stopped.
One other thing to check is that all the mainboard screws are properly tightened down and there is nothing shorting out to the case, this kind of thing can cause freeze ups as well. If you're going through Hell...keep going... (Winston Churchill)
RocKeRFelLerZ

 

[SayTen]

Crucial told me to increase my RAM voltage.

 

[yukster]

Wow, what a flurry of replies suddenly... thanks!

Let's see; I ordered a new stick of ram today: 512 MB of corsair pc2100 (there have been some issues with the nforce and corsair 2700, but that was only a specific batch and only the 2700).

I guess I should try bumping the RAM voltage. Sorry to contradict you, ceh, but at least this Asus board defaults to the lowest setting of 2.6 (maybe you meant "too low/raise it"?) And SayTen, you suggest going to 2.8v... but what about 2.7, the middle step? And does anyone know if a voltage setting makes sense for freeze-ups while idle? It would seem like low voltage would be a problem when there's a lot of activity: lots of things pulling power making the RAM dip too low. It sounds like SayTen's problems happened under intense usage (games).

The scandisk idea is intriguing too. Back when this first started, I'm pretty sure I defragged both drives and scanned them... but I could do the scan again. I was actually kind of suspicious of the drives cuz I've heard about all the problems IBM's been having. And actually I do hear a noise every once in awhile... been meaning to ask about it, but how do you describe a noise on a forum? Well, I'll give it a shot: it's like a "zeet-click-zeet-click." The "zeet" is like a quick mechanical whiz (like a quick zipper, but more whiny) and the click's a click. It always does it twice rapidly. I haven't been too worried about it, cuz I've heard my brother's computer do it. I've also run the IBM drive fitness test on both drives... which I think is actually more thorough than scandisk.

Oh, and I use winamp 2.81... tried 3.0 a while back but I too found it very buggy. And I have frozen up after fresh installs and before installing winamp, so...

I also left all peripherals except the lan diabled last night and it froze up... something it didn't do the night before with the same set-up... or the last time I left it set like that. That might actually be an argument for a hardware problem; the seeming improvement of turning off peripherals being a red herring...

Well, onward I go... should have that RAM on by Monday. Will scan the disks in the meantime... and maybe try the voltage setting this weekend.

Thanks everyone.

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

I have heard negative things about that board from others. Do a search in this forum. Thus why on their advise, I bought a Abit board instead. iSeriesCodePoet
IBM iSeries (AS/400) Programmer

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