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Stephen Fry Kinetic Typography
- Thread starter RCorrigan
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I don't have the words to adequately describe the impression that gave me so I'll just try WOW and Grin creeping to full blown smile to incredulous jaw straining whatever is superlative to full blown smile.
Did I mention WOW?
Like it? Bookmarked, faved, emailed to all my friends.
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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
Did I mention WOW?
Like it? Bookmarked, faved, emailed to all my friends.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
Nice find there...
"I like"... ;-)
Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"
"I like"... ;-)
Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"
hjgoldstein
Programmer
YouTube is blocked at work, but I opened it on mt iPhone. Great stuff. Fry at his best, and fabulous graphical work.
It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.
It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
It's very well done, and I appreciate the artistry. However, with respect to content, that will take a little more time. I can say there are parts that I agree with and parts that I don't, but due diligence is required for commenting further.
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CajunCenturion
Programmer
This appears to be the actual text:
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
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Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
CajunCenturion
Programmer
I disagree with that. It's not the originality, delight, and verbal freshness that leads to dislike and distrust; it's the message. If you cannot say what you mean, and mean what you say, then people aren't going to trust what you have to say. If they don't like what you have to say, then they're not going to like it. It doesn't matter how you dress it up in flowery language, it's still the message that counts.
Mr. Fry wonders why people can find such enjoyment in music and dance, but not in language. I don't think that's the case. If a musician hits a wrong note, there is a loss of enjoyment. If a composition is intended to convey a feeling, but the harmonies are off, then the feeling is off. You lose the grace and beauty of a dance if the dancer missteps or stumbles. It's no different with language. If you misuse a word, or use the wrong word, you're not going to express what you intended to express.
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
@ CajunCenturion>> Re:It's not the originality, delight, and verbal freshness that leads to dislike and distrust; it's the message.
You focused on only one aspect of his comment, specifically Dislike and distrust.
anyone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness is more likely to be mocked, distrusted or disliked than welcomed.
You need to ask
Independant of content)
Will someone expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be welcomed?
Will someone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be mocked distrusted or disliked.
There will be some that enjoy the originality, delight and verbal freshness all by itself.
There will be some that don't care one way or the other.
There will be some that object to the originality, delight and verbal freshness all by itself.
Eliminating the people who don't really have a bias, with what remains, which is "more likely"?
I believe the statement is fine as is.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
You focused on only one aspect of his comment, specifically Dislike and distrust.
anyone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness is more likely to be mocked, distrusted or disliked than welcomed.
You need to ask
Independant of content)Will someone expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be welcomed?
Will someone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be mocked distrusted or disliked.
There will be some that enjoy the originality, delight and verbal freshness all by itself.
There will be some that don't care one way or the other.
There will be some that object to the originality, delight and verbal freshness all by itself.
Eliminating the people who don't really have a bias, with what remains, which is "more likely"?
I believe the statement is fine as is.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
==> You need to askIndependant of content)
I think that utterly ludicrous. The purpose of language is to communicate; that is, to send a message from one person to another. And you want to judge without regard to the content of the message?
==> Will someone expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be welcomed?
I stand by it depends on what they're trying to express.
==> Will someone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be mocked distrusted or disliked.
I stand by it depends on what they're trying to express.
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Now let me ask you this. Do you think that Mr. Fry, in this essay, expressed himself with originality, delight, and verbal freshness?
I sure as hell think he did and I disagree with some of the content. I can assure you that, it in no way, shape, fashion, or form does his originality, delight, and verbal freshness lead me towards mocking him, distrusting him, nor in any way disliking him. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I suppose you'll just fall back on the "more likely" and claim this must be an exception. But I think quite the opposite. It's precisely his unique, original, and delightful presentation that brings his message into focus.
While he rails against the grammar nazis, he's not attacking those who get upset about the use of originality and fresh language, he's railing against those who get upset because what written or said is just plain wrong. "Five items or less" is not original, delightful, or verbally fresh; it's just plain wrong. Using 'disinterested' when you mean 'uninterested' is not an example of original, delightful, or verbally fresh language, nor is misusing the apostrophe. It's just plain wrong.
And I will go even one step further. The people most capable of using flowery and original language to elicit a certain response or feeling are those who have sufficient command of both the language and the rules to know when and how to break them.
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Independant of content)I think that utterly ludicrous. The purpose of language is to communicate; that is, to send a message from one person to another. And you want to judge without regard to the content of the message?
==> Will someone expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be welcomed?
I stand by it depends on what they're trying to express.
==> Will someone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness be mocked distrusted or disliked.
I stand by it depends on what they're trying to express.
----
Now let me ask you this. Do you think that Mr. Fry, in this essay, expressed himself with originality, delight, and verbal freshness?
I sure as hell think he did and I disagree with some of the content. I can assure you that, it in no way, shape, fashion, or form does his originality, delight, and verbal freshness lead me towards mocking him, distrusting him, nor in any way disliking him. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I suppose you'll just fall back on the "more likely" and claim this must be an exception. But I think quite the opposite. It's precisely his unique, original, and delightful presentation that brings his message into focus.
While he rails against the grammar nazis, he's not attacking those who get upset about the use of originality and fresh language, he's railing against those who get upset because what written or said is just plain wrong. "Five items or less" is not original, delightful, or verbally fresh; it's just plain wrong. Using 'disinterested' when you mean 'uninterested' is not an example of original, delightful, or verbally fresh language, nor is misusing the apostrophe. It's just plain wrong.
And I will go even one step further. The people most capable of using flowery and original language to elicit a certain response or feeling are those who have sufficient command of both the language and the rules to know when and how to break them.
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CajunCenturion - He is commenting on the method not the content. I certainly hope you will agree that there are many means to communicate the same message. As in mathematics, when units cancel, the content is cancelled out. Try imagining a neutral message delivered with originality, delight and verbal freshness. Now imagine the same message delivered in a more traditional method. Ludicrous? Really? I believe that people do react to the method independant of content. His method in this presentation was superb and yes I do think that is an exception. Many people try for originality, delight and verbal freshness and fall way short. He did not but his question is which is "more likely". I still agree that people with talent and success in method are fewer than those without. More likely to fail than not. Once they have failed in one aspect it is a shorter trip to mocking, distrust and dislike of either the content OR method. I'm still good with his original statement.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
Try imagining a neutral message delivered with originality, delight and verbal freshness. "
Is that even possible? Could you give an example?
"I believe that people do react to the method independant of content. "
I do not. I believe that people can react to method so that it supercedes (emotionally) awareness of content. However, this is not independent of content. This is the cause of Nazi-Grammar. They become emotional about minor issue, letting that emotional state supercede context.
"CajunCenturion - He is commenting on the method not the content."
I do not agree with the "not". He IS commenting on the content.
The key thing is context.
The "five items or less" may be technically incorrect, but I think his comment (with which I agree) is that in context, who the heck cares?
If someone was delivering a university level course (say on Semantics) and persistently used the same kind of incorrect language, then in context, it would, for me, diminish the value of the content.
unknown
Is that even possible? Could you give an example?
"I believe that people do react to the method independant of content. "
I do not. I believe that people can react to method so that it supercedes (emotionally) awareness of content. However, this is not independent of content. This is the cause of Nazi-Grammar. They become emotional about minor issue, letting that emotional state supercede context.
"CajunCenturion - He is commenting on the method not the content."
I do not agree with the "not". He IS commenting on the content.
The key thing is context.
The "five items or less" may be technically incorrect, but I think his comment (with which I agree) is that in context, who the heck cares?
If someone was delivering a university level course (say on Semantics) and persistently used the same kind of incorrect language, then in context, it would, for me, diminish the value of the content.
unknown
Fumei - Do you even try to understand what people say? My guess is that you purposely look for ways to misunderstand and go there to make some point that entertains only you.
"Try imagining a neutral message delivered with originality, delight and verbal freshness. "
Are you incapable of imagining someone saying something that neither offends nor elates you but they do it in a way that can be described as above? If so, I pity your imagination.
As to the rest, it is derivitive of your apparent lack of imagination so I won't comment.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
"Try imagining a neutral message delivered with originality, delight and verbal freshness. "
Are you incapable of imagining someone saying something that neither offends nor elates you but they do it in a way that can be described as above? If so, I pity your imagination.
As to the rest, it is derivitive of your apparent lack of imagination so I won't comment.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
==> Surely a neutral message delivered with originality, delight and verbal freshness is likely to elate - thus the message is no longer neutral. Which is the point that I think fumei may have been making.
Agreed, and my point is why would that message, because it is delivered with originality, delight, and verbal freshness make you more likely to mock, dislike, or distrust the messenger?
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Agreed, and my point is why would that message, because it is delivered with originality, delight, and verbal freshness make you more likely to mock, dislike, or distrust the messenger?
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I love the clip and I do like the way Stephen Fry's questioning his own preconceptions, probably something we should all do more of.
It's not all about a reluctance to accept change though. There's a big difference between "originality, delight and verbal freshness" and laziness or (and this grates on me even more) making up words because you think it makes you sound clever. If we're continuing the comparisons with art; although some will instantly dismiss all graffiti, just as some resist all changes to their language, there's a huge difference between a true graffiti artist & someone who just goes around scrawling their tag. The purpose of one is art, the other vandalism. As for corporate buzzwords, well they're just verbal clip-art!
"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert
It's not all about a reluctance to accept change though. There's a big difference between "originality, delight and verbal freshness" and laziness or (and this grates on me even more) making up words because you think it makes you sound clever. If we're continuing the comparisons with art; although some will instantly dismiss all graffiti, just as some resist all changes to their language, there's a huge difference between a true graffiti artist & someone who just goes around scrawling their tag. The purpose of one is art, the other vandalism. As for corporate buzzwords, well they're just verbal clip-art!
"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert
Surely a neutral message delivered with originality, delight and verbal freshness is likely to elate"
The point I get from his question is that people are more likely to dislike something and judge purely from the form. As far as I am concerned you guys are way over thinking the question.
And no, I do not believe all forms of originality, delight and verbal freshness will elate. Much to the contrary in fact. I agree with his premise that people are "More Likely" to dislike. The reason is that they have to work harder.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
The point I get from his question is that people are more likely to dislike something and judge purely from the form. As far as I am concerned you guys are way over thinking the question.
And no, I do not believe all forms of originality, delight and verbal freshness will elate. Much to the contrary in fact. I agree with his premise that people are "More Likely" to dislike. The reason is that they have to work harder.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
@kwbMitel - Don't you find it rather odd that someone would use an original, delightful, and verbally pleasing presentation to convince you that precisely that type of delivery most likely leads to mocking, dislike, and distrust?
So are you now more likely to mock, dislike, or distrust Mr Fry because of his original, delightful, and verbally pleasing presentation? If so, then how does that reconcile with your post of 28 Oct 10 0:08? If not, then why not? Why does it not fall into the "most likely" category for you? I know it's how you feel, but what makes it an exception for you? Is there a reason, or it just a gut feeling?
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So are you now more likely to mock, dislike, or distrust Mr Fry because of his original, delightful, and verbally pleasing presentation? If so, then how does that reconcile with your post of 28 Oct 10 0:08? If not, then why not? Why does it not fall into the "most likely" category for you? I know it's how you feel, but what makes it an exception for you? Is there a reason, or it just a gut feeling?
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CC - I've stated my reasons several times, as well as my opinion that this specific example is an exception.
What I interpret from his question is that it is his observation that people are "more likely" to "mock, dislike, and distrust" something due to the form of presentation. I find no issue with this statement. I agree with it. I don't think I'm misinterpreting the statement. If you have issues with my interpretation then discuss that. If you agree with my interpretation but disagree with the message, take it up with My. Fry, he is the author.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
What I interpret from his question is that it is his observation that people are "more likely" to "mock, dislike, and distrust" something due to the form of presentation. I find no issue with this statement. I agree with it. I don't think I'm misinterpreting the statement. If you have issues with my interpretation then discuss that. If you agree with my interpretation but disagree with the message, take it up with My. Fry, he is the author.
**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.
CajunCenturion
Programmer
You have stated over and over WHAT your opinion is. That's not being questioned. The questions are about WHY you feel that way. Although several disagree with your opinion, no one is saying it's wrong. It's not about what you believe, it's about why you believe that. If you have answered that question, the please let me what you said, and in which post, that you believe answered the WHY question.
What, in your mind, makes Mr. Fry's presentation an exception to the very rule that his presentation is trying to make?
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What, in your mind, makes Mr. Fry's presentation an exception to the very rule that his presentation is trying to make?
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
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