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staples

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jeffmoss26

jeffmoss26

Technical User
May 7, 2002
334
US
Hello all-
I am currently working on a residential job. What do you guys recommend for securing the bundles of cable to the studs before they enter the box (and all along the run for that matter)? I tried romex staples but they are not big enough.
Thanks in advance,
Jeff

jeff moss
 
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put a 3/4" screw through a piece of velcro.
 
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We do occasionally staple with romex staples, if done correctly (very loosely) they work fine. There are sizes of staples that accomodate large SE type feeder cables, and should hold a large amount of other wires. However, one wrong blow with the hammer and your wires are damaged.

We often use wireties with screw holes in them, they go up pretty fast with a short drywall screw and a cordless screwdriver, then you just pull them NOT QUITE TIGHT around the bundle when you get the wire where you want it.

Sometimes I just shoot a T25 staple in the stud and use it as an anchor for a loose wire tie to hold the wires in place.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
 
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One other method you can try is to take a piece of used romex sheath (with NO conductors in it) and wrap it once around the bundle and staple the romex sheath off to the stud on each side of the bundle. You can usually find lots of romex sheath laying around on a residential job site.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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They sell tie wraps with the screw eyelet hole that works good and I have also used the plastic clamp that you drive a screw through and you can either run your wire through the clamp or tie wrap to the clamp.
 
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I wanted to put the romex staples in and attach the cable tie to that, but the customer said that the insulation contractors want as few hardware/fasteners in the wall as possible. Could I use Panduit "bullets" that screw into the studs to mount the cable ties?

Jeff

jeff moss
 
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if its all within a wall to be sealed we usally dont secure the cable at all

we just make a loop at the mud ring and attach it to the screw hole with a tie wrap
 
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Use whatever works for you, or tell the insulation contractor to take care of the insulation, and let you take care of the wire and wire fastening. Geez, having the wires strapped to the stud makes insulating a lot easier than having them dangling around in the stud bay.



It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
 
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If you're taking bundles through studbays, I usually just bore a 1 1/2" hole through the studs (depending on how much prewire I have) and go through like that. I try to secure my stuff as little as possible, and I usually try to use plastic bushings wherever I can, it actually allows you to pull out wire in some instances later on. If the customer will go for it, I try to use smurf tube as much as possible. Basically... the only time I really secure anything to the max where it can't be moved much, is when I have to per code.

I'd rather use smurf tube or flex, or even EMT if I can though... that way everything can be removed later. I've made it my mission to use conduit in the wall, to bring cables into any type of crawlable space allowing removal/replacement later on.

T-75 staples work good as well, as they don't get too tight. We also use specially designed clips made by telecrafter that work GREAT. They're my favorite for doing anything with CATV, and we use them all the time with cat5, we use the RG-59 clip for that. Not too right, all plastic, and they're faster than ANYTHING out there. Here's a link:
For bundles though... caddy makes great products as far as rings and what not are concerned, I'm not sure if they qualify per code though for securing the cable. If they do... then I'd rather bore holes through studs if it's a small enough quantity.
 
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thanks for all the tips. I am using the Carlon orange nail in boxes. There are a variety of holes including larger ones for Carlon Resi-Gard tubing, they seem to work nicely.

jeff moss
 
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Avaya
You use an 1 1/2" hole for everything?
Do you nail plate every hole on both sides?
Do you pull that many cables in every hole?
Just curious, but this sounds like a tremendous waste of time and money if that is what you do.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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We don't generally change drill bits every time we reduce the wire count, that would take all week. We usually tool up with a 1" or slightly larger bit and drill our runs as straight as possible. If we need more room in horizontal runs through 2 by 4's we generally drill another hole the same size, avoiding the time to nailplate if we don't have to. When we get closer to the closet, the holes may end up being larger to accomodate all the wiring, but again we try to avoid changing bits a bunch of times and nailplating.

So much of it depends on layout. If the romex is running horizontally in the wall between outlets, I'm more likely to keep my stuff in the ceiling and drop down each stud bay to stay away from the power. Of course if sparky did that, I'd try to go horizontal with my wiring.

Anyway, use whatever is easy to secure your wires, just don't damage them.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
 
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Servamatic --

As much as I'd like to react differently, let's take a careful look at what I said directly after that. Depending on how much prewire.

If I've got my hole hog out, and I know 1 1/2" is going to be perfect for what I'm doing, then I bore out a 1 1/2" hole. If I'm running two drops, then obviously I might rethink that.

I usually try to stick to cieling space, and drop down in the studbay I'm going for, but that just depends on the layout of the place. A lot of times, I don't have an attic or cieling space to deal with.

So as to why you would think I'd use a 1 1/2" hole for every single one, I don't know. It's a great time saver if you're running any amount of wiring within a wall. I don't go bigger than that, I just multiply.

So take that for whatever it's worth. I'm 100% outside plant, and inside wiring isn't really my favorite thing in the entire world, but I've done it enough times to get the job done, up to code, using what I feel are fairly safe and fast methods. So maybe you'd like to enlighten us with your ways of the world, because I think my 1 1/2" hole works great for horizontal runs of a decent amount of cabling.

I try to keep my drill bit changes as minimal as possible, especially when using the hole hog because that thing is a pain to change bits with. My preference is still to use smurf tube wherever possible, or EMT.
 
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Do you nail plate your holes?

HAving spent many years as an electrical contractor and electrician wiring houses, I find it absurd that you would use 1 1/2" oin a 2x4 stud anywhere other than directly above the distribution device.

If you drill anything larger than 1" in a 2x4 you must by code nail plate, read 800.6 in the NEC

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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Do you nail plate your holes?

Having spent over 15 years as an electrical contractor and electrician wiring houses, I find it absurd that you would use 1 1/2" in a 2x4 stud anywhere other than directly above the distribution device.

If you drill anything larger than 1" in a 2x4 you must by code nail plate, read 800.6 in the NEC.

I am also surprised a general contractor would not say anything about drilling such large holes when they are not necessary.

Unles you are pulling more than 6 cables through the same hole anything larger than 7/8" is overkill, if you are pulling more cables drill an additional hole.
If you are using composite cable maybe a 1 1/8" hole, but then again, you must nail plate every hole.

I would be willing to bet, I could drill 2 - 7/8" holes with a hole hawg faster than you can drill a 1 1/2" since you have to be much more cautious of centering the hole in the stud when it is that large.

The easiest way to drill a house is to go through with the normal (7/8”) bit first and drill all your horizontal runs and verticals over outlets. Then you change the bit 1 time and drill the large holes over the service or in this case the distribution device. If changing the bits is too difficult for you, perhaps you should consider a new line of work.



Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
 
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I agree with Avayanovice...on the smurf tube part. I have installed 3/4" ENT in the last few resi jobs of mine. As we can agree (or disagree) a proper pathway is more flexible and more affordable than multiple drops or composite or bundled cables, as far as future proofing goes. But the 3/4" ENT needed only 1" holes and I did use nail plates when needed. I have also installed up to 2" conduits from the attics or crawlspaces to the DD. Also used nail plates. Carlon is trying to market the ResiGard (orange) ENT but my experience has been that is has been priced well above the blue (smurf tube).

So for drops in walls, only cable clamps/straps were needed for the ENT rather than directly strapping the cables. In the attics or crawlspaces, I used j-hooks for the most part, which also reduced the cable strapping.

Keep in mind, that I don't do (cannot) do resi work to pay the bills. So my time on site may be irrelevant.

Jeff
 
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Do I nail plate the holes? Well, I've never been caught on anything by an inspector, so what do you think? Of course I nailplate the holes, with the level of inaccuracy that drywall installers use (no offense) I'd be an idiot not to.

And on the same token, I could probably pull my single bundle of cable through my one hole much faster than you can through your 7/8" holes.

And like I've said about three or four times already, I try to use some type of EMT or ENT whenever I can, as I think running cable inside walls without a reasonable mean of replacing them later on is about as smart as jumping off of a cliff.

So I guess you're right Servamatic. Maybe my ways of doing this inside a wall aren't as good as yours, that's because I hardly ever do it that way, as not using conduit is just plain stupid.
 
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