So Long and Thanks for All the Fish 13

[sizbut]

psst...

[small]While nothing to do directly with this forum, following a meeting with management today it was made clear that doing anything to openly support all users, installers and maintainers of IP Office was verboten. Instead its all about getting your bucks for anything and everything, for every call, for all support, for all help.

If I'm not allowed to do my best supporting IP Office users through my job, then sorry guys but I can't see why I should try and mitigate the companies short sighted policy using my own time.

To you all. We may have argued and differed but at least we talk and try to help and get the best out of the product. Hopefully at some point in the future the wind (what a good collective noun for managers) will change but till then keep smiling. I'm off to drink cider and enjoy the snow.

Sizbut out.[/small]

 

[TomMills]

Notsetinstone, i read your previous post in full. my comment about having a chip on your shoulder was more a general response to the way you reply to some posts on here, not specific to your reply above.

with regards to my comment about joining your ACA only forum, i have learnt that sarcasm doesnt carry well written down.

i have reread my post and realised that it looks like an attack at your character. this wasnt my intention.it really wasnt, i had the arsehole with a million things and it came out here. my problem is with the attitude that money makes the world go round. and that people should pay for every little scrap of information that comes there way.

i think your conflict is totally different to mine. you are clearly in a position where, as you put it, you struggle to define the difference between what should come for free and what should be payed for. i guess i am lucky that i am purely an engineer. my salary hits my bank at the end of each month come what may, then i pay my mortgage, and im left with beer money. my sole concern is that my customers call my boss after i have seen them, and say that i did a good job and i delivered the goods. thats all i worry about. i guess if i was self employed or was higher up in my company, then my attitude/priorities may change.

i am eternally grateful for this forum. as westi quite eloquently put it, we are being paid in information, not money.

again, apologies for coming across as a dick. i know that i did. but i cant understand how someone can think that people in different roles, in different continents, coming together, sharing experiences and ideas and problems can be a bad thing. eventually something learnt here will directly relate to one of your customers, or my customers, or someone elses customers, and when it happens they will know what to do to resolve it straight away (probably upgrade it!) and that will be one more client that thinks this is a good product, because it really is.

sizbut. apologies for hijacking your thread. enjoy the cider and the snow!




arsene knows......

everything. apart from the importance of depth in a squad. and what a chequebook looks like......

 

[jamie77]

Wow this thread has taken a turn!!!!!!

My only concern with the free/paid confilct is the amount of end users playing with thier systems and screwing it up! This ends up is people not having a maint contract and costing us money in the long run.

On the other side of the coin, I have had users look on this forum and then contact me to take up a contract and even sold a few systems on the back of that.

Swings and roundabouts really.

Tek-Tips can almost be an adiction for some of us (I have spent many a long hour here!!!), logging in muliple times a day to see what muppet questions we have today or to see a regular tech in need of help. I can understand bosses not wanting us to spend office time helping someone on the other side of the world that will never benefit the firm.

To prove the above, it's 20:35 on a Sunday night, the kids have just gone to bed and the first thing I do is open up my laptop and read this. Am I sad or broadening my knowledge. I know which answer the wife gives!!!!

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

Football is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[Notsetinstone]

TomMills, I didn't take it in any particular way, that's why I asked. I understand what you are saying about your job and income and all that so let me but it this way.

What is the value that you have? It's your knowledge right? If you give it away for free, then as an income generating entity you are worthless. NOT as a person but as a business commodity. If you become worthless, then you have no value to your employer. If he could get your information for free by asking you on this forum, why should he keep you on the payroll?

Now your employer decides to keep you around, pays you, but you solve problems for others (which is your job for the company), but your employer devives no benefit or income from your efforts here.

Now, in aggregate, all of us (me included) answer questions to all the end users who either bought on line (= my company didn't make anything and neither did yours) or can't stand thier vendor (= my company didn't make anything and neither did yours)or think they can do it themselves (= my company didn't make anything and neither did yours).

So now our companies lose money due to loss of sales and in turn don't need us.

This is why I am conflicted. where does it start and end and why should end users benefit from our knowledge without paying. Since there is no place for technicians only to share info, I am forced to come here.

And by the way, this will affect the end users as well because at some point they will have to bear the cost at some point or face the fact that those of us who have have the answers won't be able to do it anymore because we can't make enough to give it away for free.

If you think it ends with your employer your wrong it will get to you.

Would you answer these same questions for your employer if he didn't pay you? Especially after he let you go because he couldn't afford to pay you anymore.

I don't think I am conflicted anymore, I'm done with answering for free.

I'm going to try and start the other forum and I really hope you join. No sarcasm.

http://www.nu-tel.com

 

[TomMills]

well. that all makes perfect sense. i guess when you put it like that we should also stop posting the knowledgebase address and pointing people in the direction of the F1 key! lol

i would join. but i havent finished my network plus or ctp or whatever it is, so no ACA, although i do have all my avaya accreditations.....



arsene knows......

everything. apart from the importance of depth in a squad. and what a chequebook looks like......

 

[Westi]

gentlemen
there is an easy way to divide the customers that are just cheap from the techs that are in need of help. If it is a question that can be determined as a lack of RTFM because they don't go to the help in the manager file then it is a customer that should pay for it. If it is on the other hand a more detailed question that is not easily solved by pressing help then it might be a tech or an advanced customer.
I would love to join a tech only forum but would probably still come here out of the same reason TLPETER said it is fun to read some of those questions even if you don't answer them.
@TomMills I would think that a tech forum would let you in even if you dont' have the ACA just because you are an asset due to the knowledge you have and it is clearly visible to people here that are longer on this then a week.
anybody starting a new forum for techs

and I guess then SIZBUT could join again but it would be much less traffic on it then here because we will more likely fiddle with it until we get all frustrated and then ask for help

Joe W.

FHandw., ACS

If you can't be good, be good at it!

 

[TXGeoff]

And then there are those of us who would have long ago replaced our IPO systems if these forums and the helpful participants weren't here.

So sharing information and providing help isn't always about losing money. Sometimes it's about keep a platform viable for those of us who won't be held hostage by any vendor.

Geoff

 

[mattKnight]

A couple of things spring to mind...


1) Goodbye sizbut, you will be missed. Enjoy your cider and snow.

2) This free / paid thing.
<arrogance>
Quite simple, I am paid for my skill. Part of my skill is my knowledge of IPO, partly my knowledge of MS products, partly networking. But much of it is "soft skills" - how to deal with people.
</arrogance>
An internet forum, like this, does not cause customers to cease contracts, fiddle with systems or do 101 other things. What causes customers to look at these forums for solutions are inept implementors. What a forum like this does is enable them to get help when their BP has failed (remember AzJeepGirl?) We can all recognise the sponges too lazy to RTFM - red flag the post or just reply with a RTFM.

Don't forget that this site is for mutual help between IT professionals - just because people don't know the IPO they may have 1120 stars in the Windows Server Forum. You can bet your bippy that you won't call your External server support if you can get the answer for free here....

notsetinstone - good luck with your forum. I wonder how much traffic you will get. Sadly, I can't apply because I don't have an ACA...

-

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

 

[IPOfficeIreland]

ah JeepGirl, how she is missed. We need more women on this forum!

 

[TomMills]

ha ha we do indeed! i only know of 3 women that work on the ipo, that needs to change

arsene knows......

everything. apart from the importance of depth in a squad. and what a chequebook looks like......

 

[IPOfficeIreland]

There'd be no mention of RTFM to any woman posting here, that's for sure.

 

[TomMills]

but plenty of offers to go round and RTFM to them

arsene knows......

everything. apart from the importance of depth in a squad. and what a chequebook looks like......

 

[IPOfficeIreland]

lol, yea bedtime stories about 2 IPOs linking together in harmony in many possible ways, H323, SIP...

 

[mattKnight]

2 IPOs linking together in harmony in many possible ways, H323, SIP..

E and M for me...

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

 

[IPOfficeIreland]

umm, i've heard about this e & m fetish

 

[TomMills]

is that the one where you are tied up with patch leads and spanked with a curly cord?

arsene knows......

everything. apart from the importance of depth in a squad. and what a chequebook looks like......

 

[IPOfficeIreland]

sounds like you know what you are talking about Tom!


Technicians' fantasy! This thread really has taken a turn for the better.