Should I change the company? 2

[B00gyeMan]

I'll be brief, as much as possible.

I work for a software company that is focused on delivering highly specialized software to (mostly) telcos.
Some time ago, a simple member of the QA team was mysteriously invested as "Product Manager".
Besides the fact that she was very eager to impose her newly invested powers to each and everyone that proved she was (mostly) wrong, some other things have changed.

Since she changed positions, we are mostly working at GUI changes, and it seems it's not going to stop anytime soon. This means no one is caring about the holes in the business logic / app. engine.

A few months ago, two of our largest clients spotted what seems to be o horrifying bug (the "sometimes" king of bug that crashes 2/3 of the systems). The support teams are not being helpful as I only obtained "I don't know" / "I didn’t do it" when asking them about details.

As a consequence, two develop teams are working on the clock 10-11 hours a day, retrieving logs, talking to the clients, performing crash analysis, attempting to contain & reproduce the problem.

Meanwhile, she (the PM) is kicking our ass because she has some deadlines to meet with the new GUI (third in a row, none of them had ever hit the market). Arguing with her is purely suicidal, as if she doesn't like what you're saying she will at least yell at you.


Needless to say she does not seem to have any clue of what she was doing as we were forced to heavily alter some base algorithms that are working for years and have been proved to be ok by the satisfied customers.

Huh, that was a long one... Lately, I am considering leaving the company, because I've simply had enough and have no intent of writing GUI related code for all of my life.
The question: should I do it or not? I feel out of patience
P.S.: The paycheck is satisfactory.

 

[SQLSister]

Having been in a similar situation, I will say to you that get out now is a really good idea. Good paychecks can be found in other places and the farther away you get from the coding you love, the harder it will be to get that good job in your specialty later. It's easier to find a another job while you are still employed.

There are better places to work than this.

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[eyeswideclosed]

That is a depressing situation, I've been in them before. When unqualified/unsuitable people are put in positions of authority for whatever reason it has a terrible effect on everyone else, the products, and the company as a whole. This person obviously has no clue how software works and is only concerned with politics and cosmetics, the underlying critical code is "automagic" to her, probably, not worth a thought even if she had one. You can stick it out if you can as usually these types of people are eventually replaced once it becomes clear even to the pinheads that placed them there that it was a mistake, but this may take a while.

 

[Grenage]

Indeed, run away! If possible voice your concerns and reasons for leaving honestly, if only to give the people still there a glimmer of hope.


Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[appelq]

Just a thought when interviewing for that next job.
Don't bad mouth the PM, or anyone at the soon to be formaer company.

When the issue of why do you want to leave comes up, talk about needing a new challenge, that they need GUI developers and you want to work on business logic.

Whatever you do, don't say anything negative about the current company or people.

Good luck.

 

[B00gyeMan]

I've been away a long time (vacation & some other stuff). Thanks for all the answers. I'll probably stay here a little longer, but my bags are already half packed and I have no problem moving on to another place. Moreover, I was surprised to discover that some of my colleagues are actively searching for a job. I can only imagine that bad things happened while I was away

All hands, abandon ship

 

[alvinpm]

if you really want to quit, at least go out full guns and speak your mind. be honest and objective when you do it. the worst case scenario is you get fired which means you get unemployment checks versus quitting.

hmmmm

 

[B00gyeMan]

Why?
I mean, sure, it would be a good thing to do for my colleagues.
But when it comes to the world of large companies, then it is all about profit. And I have nothing to gain from speaking my mind. The company has, because they'll probably realize what a drag this manager is and how is she slowing down all the critical stuff in favor of the pretty, pinkish, decorative little thingies. And who am I to interfere with the company's management? I am sure that the upper management is capable enough to assess the situation. And since it's been like this for many months, they are definitely happy with this situation.

I guess I have reached a stage where I do not really care anymore. It only hurts me that I'll be losing my wonderful team.
I need to chill-out and get on with my life.

 

[svanels]

And I have nothing to gain from speaking my mind

You are right, if they are not listening now when you are still employed, imagine when you are leaving.

Steven

 

[nickpark]

Once you have another job secured you can do whatever you wish.

So what if they don't respect your opinion; your wonderful team members will and you will: do it for yourself; it'll feel good.

 

[Spirit]

Don't burn bridges state some rubbish excuse for leaving because you never know who will be interveiwing you in10 years time!

Leave it unsaid and leave with dignaty.

Go out with the guys you get on with and have a right good moan over a couple of pints!

Iain

 

[AlexCuse]

I had an exit interview from HR at my last job in which I was extremely candid. It took a couple of others being candid as well, but what I hear from friends who are still there is that it did make a difference and the department is improving very much. I think it is worth saying what is on your mind (to HR) because it will not offend anyone, and possibly help your former co-workers.

Good Luck,

Alex


It's a magical time of year in Philadelphia. Eagles training camp marks the end of another brutal season of complaining about the Phillies.

 

[svanels]

There is a difference between a polite exit interview and the "traditional burning all bridges" although both are at the end of a relationship

Steven

 

[kmcginn]

Is this PM now your boss, or is she just the PM? What I mean is, can you talk to your boss (or her boss) and explain what's really going on? Gather your thoughts and present them in a professional way, Make it clear you are thinking of the clients' needs and not just bashing her ideas.

Sometimes it's hard to believe that management can really be seeing what's going on and not be doing anything about it. If the whole team feels this way, maybe you could collectively call a meeting with her boss and voice your concerns. Again, it would have to be done in a very professional non gripe way or it will just come across as disgruntled employees at a bitch session.

If none of that works, I would make sure oyur resume is up-to-date and start looking. Goos Luck!

 

[B00gyeMan]

She is my boss. And she was proposed for this position by her boss.
While looking for another job I'm enjoying working on a few home-grown small open-source projects (along with two team mates). Let's just say it feels... liberating.

While I am usually a moderate and rational person, and I am not the kind which would "go down with a bang", I do not agree that I should voice my opinions to anyone because I did that for too long. The management is payed to do exactly that: manage. Failure to maintain team cohesion, normal boss-employee relationships, assess suggestions & ideeas, etc..., must take its toll.

I would like to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts.

 

[DirkStruan]

BOOgyeMan

There are a couple of possible scenarios that come to mind (but a greater description about your boss and her boss would help):

Your boss sounds like she has been picked from the ranks and put in a position that she isn't equiped to deal with. From your posts, she appears to have no man-management skills and also has no knowledge of what the job entails. I assume she understands GUI (a bit at least) and is therefore trying to concentrate all the work on the one topic she knows about so she can (possibly) sound intelligent about current projects when quizzed by her seniors.

Aside: If this is the case (that she knows only a limited area), get every instruction written down/documented even if you refer to conversations in the memos or emails you write. If she doesn't comment on them all's good, but if she later disagrees with the content she is effectively calling you a liar. In that case you are then in the position where she has made it impossible for you to do your job at the company (as the relationship has broken down) and that's constructive dismissal. (Now think of the reaction if all the people in your team did this - your HR dept would be very busy). Anyway.....

1) If she yells at people when they disagree with her she probably has a weak personality and, consequently, will be a weak manager. If that's true, I expect her boss is also weak, as poor seniors prefer to have poor juniors under them because they like yes-men rather than leaving themselves open to challenge.

If that sounds true, you should look at her bosses position. What's happening on his projects throughout the company. If he's like her, then they are probably not going well & this will eventually get noticed by the people above him.

Once it does, he will either be given a target to achieve (which he's likely to fail as he's a poor manager) or will be moved aside in favour of someone else. Once this happens, and if the new guy is a strong manager, your boss's time is limited. As you said, it's up to the managers to manage and eventually they will as not managing your boss will hit them in the pocket & that won't happen for long.

Even if the new guy is also weak, he might prefer to bring in his own yes-men rather than sticking with what he's been given.

This is a wait and see game (which could take a couple of years) that will be helped if everyone doesn't go the extra mile to ensure things work out ok. Let things rot and don't cover up her mistakes.

Alternatively, if her boss is a good manager, he will see she is making a hash of it and have to remove her himself (as her actions will not reflect well on him). It's still a waiting game though.

2) If you can't be bothered to wait, you can always play some office politics:

If any of your team hear about problems on more critical systems (i.e. non GUI which she loves) that need fixing, alert your boss with a memo/email explaining the fault & the problems it will cause to clients together with an estimate of the number of occurances that are likely to hit. Make it all very pleasant and professional - you are highlighting a business risk because you are a model employee after all. Oh, and CC it to her boss as well....And anyone of equal rank or greater than her, who may be affected by the problem - the more the better. (They used to say a memo to 10 people is by definition 5 times better than a memo to 2 people irrespective of the content - emails are the new generation of memos) One last thing: when you are expressing your concerns about the fault and it's potential impact on the company, request a meeting (with all parties) to discuss the problem in greater detail.

If she shoots down your suggestion she will have to explain why to the others on the memo/email (and that won't look good for her as she doesn't understand the implications in the first place). If she arranges a meeting you can (tactfully) illustrate her "training needs" to the rest of the attendees in (again) a professional manner.

This one won't make you the love of her life but if you do it right you will
1) only annoy her
2) she may get reassigned - problem solved
3) she may get sacked - problem solved
4) you might highlight your own greater potential for advancement
5) enjoy it for the game that it is!

If it all goes hideously wrong, you're still looking for another job anyway, and it's hard for them to put on a reference that you were sacked because you were focussing on the company's best interests!

If you can find a copy, have a look at "Upward nobility : how to win the rat race without becoming a rat." by Addison Steele. It's an old book but has some useful insights - for those looking to get on in management, invert the advice.

D

 

[djr111]

I tend to lean more towards 'Spirits' posting. I have learn latley that the world is not as big as you think it is. After leaving my last position, I so wanted to just tell them where to stick it, but instead I just left with my dignity and said good bye. I have previously interviewed with management of companies that know a person of a person and before you know it, someone came up to me at my company that I was not happy with and ask me if I was actively looking for a job. I was dumbfounded because I was keeping it on the downlow at the time. Since then I landed a job at another shop and am happy for now.

Like you, my job changed, from being a per say 'normal sysadmin' position to a basic position a monkey could be trained to do. I knew I had to leave before I lost my ability or skills needed to keep up with the many people out their in our industry.

 

[AndrewTait]

I agree entirely with djr111. Having spent a while looking for a new job, when my boss's,boss's boss asked if I was looking for a new job, I answered him honestly, and told him I was.

turned out his wife worked for a recruitment company who had got my CV from a jobs web site, and just happened to mention that she had seen a CV with the company name on it.

He preferred to know rather than being supprised by my resignation, and whilst he still kept me involved with everything until the point at which I resigned, it was a benefit that he knew, as I was then able to waive 2/3 of my notice period, and start my new job as soon as possible.

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So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key

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[SQLBill]

Dear PM-Boss Lady,

Are you aware that while we have been working on GUIs that go no where, cost the company money and get no return...clients that do bring in money for us are complaining about the products they are using. These are products that we can't fix because you want us to spend all of our time on products that aren't put into use and don't earn money. Pretty soon those paying clients will decide to go elsewhere and all of us, including you, will be out of jobs. I suggest that we agree to 'shelve' the GUI for a while until we fix the bugs in the client software.

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-SQLBill

Posting advice: FAQ481-4875