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Shoretel Complaints? 1
- Thread starter otimmyo
- Start date
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1
- #2
I think most one here are techs, so you will get a support persons point of view, not strictly an end user. I have used it, it is ok, and reminded me of ESI systems in its' VM box functionality. It may lack some features in comparison to other systems, but not an issue if you do not need them.
We have switch to Shoretel and have great success. One server powering 9 sites (7 remote). Changes are on the fly, users can move without my intervention, and we are saving on bandwith compared to our old system. System is very flexible with workgruops (Queues) and auto attendants.
VonZipper
IS-IT--Management
- May 1, 2003
- 81
I use, install, and maintain the systems. We have 14 sites and about 650 phones. I would never go back, the system is everything we need. I do have a question for AARENOT. What features does the ShoreTel system not have that other systems do?
otimmyo,
Since you asked for complaints, I am not going to ignore your request, and simply taught how great the Shoretel is in respect to your posts question. I am going to offer an answer to your question, not the opposite. I have used, been involved in installing, and servicing many systems including the Shoretel, and other systems. With thousands of systems including phone, and voicemail which I have installed from over a dozen manufacturers, and from the thousands more I have serviced I have learned as a consultant to critique products not just drink, and pass the Koolaid. Each system has its strengths, and weaknesses, and those who know the industry, and their own product know their product has weaknesses in certain areas, and what they are. If they do not know their products weaknesses then they do not know their product.
Some obvious weaknesses that almost everyone can agree on.
Lack of numbers of qualified, experienced techs in comparison to other manufacturers vendors.
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced vendors in comparison to other manufacturers vendors.
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors bidding on the same project(competition).
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors providing maint./service in the same local area(competition).
lack of proven support structure to support more than a miniscule market share. This does not mean they will not rise to the task, but every new system they sell stretches their support structure to a larger footprint than they have any previous experience with.
I am sure the knowledgable persons here can add to my list as their are those who certainly know the Shoretel better than I do, and thus can state at least some of its weaknesses.
Since you asked for complaints, I am not going to ignore your request, and simply taught how great the Shoretel is in respect to your posts question. I am going to offer an answer to your question, not the opposite. I have used, been involved in installing, and servicing many systems including the Shoretel, and other systems. With thousands of systems including phone, and voicemail which I have installed from over a dozen manufacturers, and from the thousands more I have serviced I have learned as a consultant to critique products not just drink, and pass the Koolaid. Each system has its strengths, and weaknesses, and those who know the industry, and their own product know their product has weaknesses in certain areas, and what they are. If they do not know their products weaknesses then they do not know their product.
Some obvious weaknesses that almost everyone can agree on.
Lack of numbers of qualified, experienced techs in comparison to other manufacturers vendors.
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced vendors in comparison to other manufacturers vendors.
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors bidding on the same project(competition).
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors providing maint./service in the same local area(competition).
lack of proven support structure to support more than a miniscule market share. This does not mean they will not rise to the task, but every new system they sell stretches their support structure to a larger footprint than they have any previous experience with.
I am sure the knowledgable persons here can add to my list as their are those who certainly know the Shoretel better than I do, and thus can state at least some of its weaknesses.
VonZipper
IS-IT--Management
- May 1, 2003
- 81
Well, that did not really answer the question though. I do partially agree with what you said in your response. ShoreTel has not been in the Telecom market for the last 30 years, so they will have to proove themselves only by what they can show us in the future, expand their customers and the service will follow. The only point I would argue is the support side. Well, not really argue, but atleast say that they rank amoung the best in providing support.
In you first response though, you said "It may lack some features in comparison to other systems, but not an issue if you do not need them." I am curious as to what lead you to say that? I work with multiple phone systems, and I have not found any features to be missing, but I am very curious to hear what you may have found. It was a bold statement that you said to the person asking for peoples opinion, and if it was just a statement that you made without any real information to back it up, I am wondering why.
In all actuallity, I think I know the answer to my own question to you. I have been through many Cisco, Nortel, and Avaya seminars and or sales meetings. It is always fun to go into those settings with at least a small amount of knowledge of each system. Each of the big three only have one response when it comes to comparing their systems to ShoreTel. They always say that the company is small, it is new, do they have money to survive, all of those types of comments. Yes, they are valid, and they deserve to be investigated by any potential buyer, but the big three do not, and try not to get into a nuts and bolts discussion and truely compare their product to the ShoreTel product. I am not going to say that ShoreTel is all that and a bag of chips, but when you truely compare ShoreTel to those three, ShoreTel does offer a product that is very hard to beat. If you took the big threes names away, and just compared the nuts and bolts, ShoreTel will win everytime!
In you first response though, you said "It may lack some features in comparison to other systems, but not an issue if you do not need them." I am curious as to what lead you to say that? I work with multiple phone systems, and I have not found any features to be missing, but I am very curious to hear what you may have found. It was a bold statement that you said to the person asking for peoples opinion, and if it was just a statement that you made without any real information to back it up, I am wondering why.
In all actuallity, I think I know the answer to my own question to you. I have been through many Cisco, Nortel, and Avaya seminars and or sales meetings. It is always fun to go into those settings with at least a small amount of knowledge of each system. Each of the big three only have one response when it comes to comparing their systems to ShoreTel. They always say that the company is small, it is new, do they have money to survive, all of those types of comments. Yes, they are valid, and they deserve to be investigated by any potential buyer, but the big three do not, and try not to get into a nuts and bolts discussion and truely compare their product to the ShoreTel product. I am not going to say that ShoreTel is all that and a bag of chips, but when you truely compare ShoreTel to those three, ShoreTel does offer a product that is very hard to beat. If you took the big threes names away, and just compared the nuts and bolts, ShoreTel will win everytime!
VonZipper.
I like the Shoretel as well, for companies that are willing to take a chance on an unknown. I think they will probably be the fastest growing, and therefore the most stretched manufacturer in the market, well in the USA anyway, and maybe Canada not the world market.
I want to say with the statements I just made, I am not downing the shoretel, I like the shoretel system, seriously. I am just being real, and if you think I pull any punches with other systems that I support, you have not read my posts. I have no problem critiquing the systems I implement, that is my job as a consultant. In fact, if I feel that another product than the ones I implement is a better fit for my customer, I will tel them so. I will also subcobntract the system install to the other Vendor and take my little piece of the action for the honesty I gave them. I do run my own show though, so I can do what I feel is right for my friends/customers.
Let me ask a question about Shoretel, and if it would beat the bigger 20, or more if you count unique systems since Shoretel only has one, and other vendors have more choices. If your brother in law was looking for a system, thet you would not be servicing, or selling, that would have 15 phones/users, 6 auto attendants, 65 VM boxes, 25 group MB's, and a 64 channel conference bridge. Rural area, market say less than 50,000 people in the county. Multiple sites identical requirements all in their own native language( let's not use Spanish, but the customer wants home workers with IP phones that carry any needed software, including VPN if needed onboard the phone. Also, they have no POE currently. The 4 sites include one english speaking system, and 3 other language systems in nations on every continent in different time zones.
Now beating the others everytime in the real world includes price my friend, and that is the basics of nuts, and bolts.
Let me know which system you think would be best for this scenario, including price. The project timeline is starting in two weeks, implementation following in 40 days alll wites. Assume the sites are already networked together.
One more questions, how many languages, continents, countries, dialects does Shoretel distribution, support, logisitics, and documentation come in currently?
I like the Shoretel as well, for companies that are willing to take a chance on an unknown. I think they will probably be the fastest growing, and therefore the most stretched manufacturer in the market, well in the USA anyway, and maybe Canada not the world market.
I want to say with the statements I just made, I am not downing the shoretel, I like the shoretel system, seriously. I am just being real, and if you think I pull any punches with other systems that I support, you have not read my posts. I have no problem critiquing the systems I implement, that is my job as a consultant. In fact, if I feel that another product than the ones I implement is a better fit for my customer, I will tel them so. I will also subcobntract the system install to the other Vendor and take my little piece of the action for the honesty I gave them. I do run my own show though, so I can do what I feel is right for my friends/customers.
Let me ask a question about Shoretel, and if it would beat the bigger 20, or more if you count unique systems since Shoretel only has one, and other vendors have more choices. If your brother in law was looking for a system, thet you would not be servicing, or selling, that would have 15 phones/users, 6 auto attendants, 65 VM boxes, 25 group MB's, and a 64 channel conference bridge. Rural area, market say less than 50,000 people in the county. Multiple sites identical requirements all in their own native language( let's not use Spanish, but the customer wants home workers with IP phones that carry any needed software, including VPN if needed onboard the phone. Also, they have no POE currently. The 4 sites include one english speaking system, and 3 other language systems in nations on every continent in different time zones.
Now beating the others everytime in the real world includes price my friend, and that is the basics of nuts, and bolts.
Let me know which system you think would be best for this scenario, including price. The project timeline is starting in two weeks, implementation following in 40 days alll wites. Assume the sites are already networked together.
One more questions, how many languages, continents, countries, dialects does Shoretel distribution, support, logisitics, and documentation come in currently?
VonZipper
IS-IT--Management
- May 1, 2003
- 81
That is a beautiful question, but I would need a little more detail.
How many sites are there total? In one sentence you say 4 sites, and another you say on every continent. I am guessing or assuming we will have one site in the USA and then three others like lets say the UK, South Africa, and then a Asian country.
Will each location have 15 users, 6 AA, 65 mb, 25 group mb, and a 64 port conf bridge? Seems like alot of Conf ports for such small locations. How many remote workers will be associated with each site? What type of software are you referring to and does it have to be on the phone, or will they have a pc also?
I think this question is a beautiful question because it makes a person think outside of the box, and in this case, outside of our own environment and or country. I am sure that with Cisco, Avaya, and Nortel they have expanded their systems to just about every county out there in one way or another. With that said, ShoreTel does have quite a few countries covered, and if needed they will write up special programing for you for your application. In ten years from now, that may not be needed, but today it would be for some locations. Thank you for forcing me to open my eyes and look around a little more. I am in the USA, and have never had to deal with anything outside of the country. I should not be so quick to jump without taking into account everyones opinion as they often do see things in a different light than my own.
With that said, I do know of a copper mining company that is using ShoreTel to link all of their sites together in multiple countries. I met them this September, but like I said, right now, it only links all of their sites and they use Nortel in places that ShoreTel does not support yet.
How many sites are there total? In one sentence you say 4 sites, and another you say on every continent. I am guessing or assuming we will have one site in the USA and then three others like lets say the UK, South Africa, and then a Asian country.
Will each location have 15 users, 6 AA, 65 mb, 25 group mb, and a 64 port conf bridge? Seems like alot of Conf ports for such small locations. How many remote workers will be associated with each site? What type of software are you referring to and does it have to be on the phone, or will they have a pc also?
I think this question is a beautiful question because it makes a person think outside of the box, and in this case, outside of our own environment and or country. I am sure that with Cisco, Avaya, and Nortel they have expanded their systems to just about every county out there in one way or another. With that said, ShoreTel does have quite a few countries covered, and if needed they will write up special programing for you for your application. In ten years from now, that may not be needed, but today it would be for some locations. Thank you for forcing me to open my eyes and look around a little more. I am in the USA, and have never had to deal with anything outside of the country. I should not be so quick to jump without taking into account everyones opinion as they often do see things in a different light than my own.
With that said, I do know of a copper mining company that is using ShoreTel to link all of their sites together in multiple countries. I met them this September, but like I said, right now, it only links all of their sites and they use Nortel in places that ShoreTel does not support yet.
GSmitherman
Programmer
I can not agree with Von Zipper more. When everything is compared, ShoreTel will win everytime. Below are my answers to aarenot:
Some obvious weaknesses that almost everyone can agree on. (I don't agree)
Lack of numbers of qualified, experienced techs in comparison to other manufacturers vendors. (HOW MANY QUALIFIED TECHS ARE NECESSARY? OUR TECHNICIANS ARE ALL QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED. OUR CUSTOMERS RAVE ABOUT THE PRODUCT AND THE INSTALLATIONS. WE CONSTANTLY GET OUTSTANDING MARKS FROM THEM ON THE SHORETEL SURVEY. OUR CUSTOMERS DO NOT CARE HOW MANY TECHS ARE IN AMERICA, JUST IN OUR COMPANY)
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced vendors in comparison to other manufacturers vendors. (WHEN SOMEONE BUYS A SYSTEM FROM A VENDOR THEY ARE CONCERNED WITH THAT VENDOR NOT ALL VENDORS)
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors bidding on the same project(competition). (SEE ANSWER ABOVE)
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors providing maint./service in the same local area(competition).(SEE ANSWER ABOVE)
Some obvious weaknesses that almost everyone can agree on. (I don't agree)
Lack of numbers of qualified, experienced techs in comparison to other manufacturers vendors. (HOW MANY QUALIFIED TECHS ARE NECESSARY? OUR TECHNICIANS ARE ALL QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED. OUR CUSTOMERS RAVE ABOUT THE PRODUCT AND THE INSTALLATIONS. WE CONSTANTLY GET OUTSTANDING MARKS FROM THEM ON THE SHORETEL SURVEY. OUR CUSTOMERS DO NOT CARE HOW MANY TECHS ARE IN AMERICA, JUST IN OUR COMPANY)
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced vendors in comparison to other manufacturers vendors. (WHEN SOMEONE BUYS A SYSTEM FROM A VENDOR THEY ARE CONCERNED WITH THAT VENDOR NOT ALL VENDORS)
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors bidding on the same project(competition). (SEE ANSWER ABOVE)
lack of numbers of qualified, and experienced local vendors providing maint./service in the same local area(competition).(SEE ANSWER ABOVE)
VZ,
I meant only one site per continent for the office sites, and no more, USA plus 3, and only one english speaking site. The systems would each have remote phones say 9 remote phones each(hard phones not software phones), and the phones themselves must have any required VPN software on the phone itself, no VPN hardware, or VPN equipment (including a PC)off site where the remote worker phone is at. The main sites can have VPN equipment of your factories supported choices, as long as it is included in your pricing. Other than that the comment on the conference ports is further clarified by the 9 remote workers on each site possibly attending the conference bridges, 15 internal users add up to 24, and the rest of the 64 via the local site telco inbound circuits of varying types internationaly of varying configurations PRI, etc for the remaining 40 channels. One thing I did not mention was of course direct dialing from site to site within the network pipe voip to avoid the international toll charges which would also allow access from site to site to the four independent 64 channel conference bridges. The rest is all identical site to site as far as numbers, all the languages for the systems being in the local native tongue including system prompts.
I was not going to add this, but you seem to have an open mind to understand the global nature of communications, and business. Include a full maint agreement with upgrades, etc., and on site services agreement so the customer does not have to touch even a patch cord, or a punch tool, ever. Troubleshooting Telco issues does not need to be covered in the maint agreement, but in reality it requires on site response on a time, and materials basis by qualified personel as well so it must be available within common service level response agreements for maint contrtacts.
To let you know, in my 15 years I have systems which I have project managed, or pre-programmed and shipped out to 30 states, the Canadian provinces, Mexico, Arab countries, and even shipboard systems. One of my previous employers venture developed call acounting, and system administration tools that ended up with a big boys name plate on it, yet developement stayed in the little boys house, so I have seen some of the eye openings that happen to go from a grain of sand in a thimble to one in the ocean to one in the universe. The ocean represents just the US market.
GS,
I do find your responses to my reply valid, however I do as well have some differences of opinion based on my experience.
1.) All manufacturers, vendors, and systems have strengths and weaknesses in comparison to their competitors, and good techs know what they are for products they are subject matter experts about.
2.) Some customers are concerned with portability including to another local or non-local vendor, supplier, or movement to another state, region, or even cheaper services avaialbility due to multiple service/support options. Just my experience, and what I recomend to my customers when I consult with them is to look at the field of options for qualified vendors in their area. If the company you work for GS for some reason went out of business(it happens), is there another highly qualified vendor locally of your caliber?
3.) Customers do not like to be serviced by a monopoly in all cases, and competition has an effect on the market that consumers can feel is beneficial. If there are only a handful of high caliber national service providors the customer may not like that, and choose a manufacturer with more vendors that can handle their account in house, not to rule out one with its own in house national, or international services.
I have consulted for one company that bought new systems from national service companies only who would do all project management, programming, and configuration in house, yet after warranty wanted only local service.
Again, GS I am answering the posters question not attacking Shoretel, the reality is that Shoretel has strengths, and weaknesses. Please do not take it personally, and do make an attempt to answer the posting yourself, as well as not answering it by disagreeing with myself. I do not mind your disagreement with me, it just does nothing to answer the posting. Saying Shoretel in all cases, for all customers, in all scenarios, in all possible applications, in all places in the world is far better than all of the other options out there is not really productive to the discussion of what complaints are there about Shoretel or their systems. It just makes you sound like a kool-aid drinker.
I used to work for a shoretel implementor who was by shoretel rated number one, and there were complaints about the system/features/phones/prices/differences in what one vendor called a specific feature and its functionality vs another vendors definitions, and function. Users had complaints/suggestions, techs did as well, and so did sales people.
I have some systems I do not recomend unless the system will use a circuit vs analog trunks as the performance of analog trunks does not justify the expenditure, yet with a circuit the feature set is totally different, and thus justifies the expense of the system. Some systems are not cost effective for conference bridge features, and functionality, and it can even be more cost effective to hang another system off of them to add that capability rather than off the main system. That may sound silly to you, but it is not in many cases to the customer. I am an ESI fan for some business types/budgets/sizes, and user types, but would not recomend them outside that niche. Toshiba has had some issues with their analog station cards in the past that my customers have complained about, so I do not recomend them in high analog density applications where lightning is a frequent occurence in the area. Partner ACS is great for flexible ports allowing a multiline, and analog phone off of one port, and is great when needing a cordless to slave off the multiline phone in its AUX port on the bottom of the phone. However it does not do IP telephony all that well, so I do not advise it when that is needed. I could go on about over a few dozen system types that I know intimately enough to cite release based strenghts, and weaknesses, but I think I made my point.
While I have no issue with your opinion being different than mine in your expressing that Shoretel has nothing that anyone has ever complained about, and that no complaint has ever been valid since Shoretel is superior to all other systems in all applications in all ways. I think you could find something to complain about if you were willing to look for a response to the posters question. You seem to be focused on challenging any thought that Shoretel is less than perfect. I personally do not work for a phone system manufacturer, but for my customers, and we do not only offer one system to our customers.
I have however considered a new system coming out from Shorete called the Panacea, lol.
I meant only one site per continent for the office sites, and no more, USA plus 3, and only one english speaking site. The systems would each have remote phones say 9 remote phones each(hard phones not software phones), and the phones themselves must have any required VPN software on the phone itself, no VPN hardware, or VPN equipment (including a PC)off site where the remote worker phone is at. The main sites can have VPN equipment of your factories supported choices, as long as it is included in your pricing. Other than that the comment on the conference ports is further clarified by the 9 remote workers on each site possibly attending the conference bridges, 15 internal users add up to 24, and the rest of the 64 via the local site telco inbound circuits of varying types internationaly of varying configurations PRI, etc for the remaining 40 channels. One thing I did not mention was of course direct dialing from site to site within the network pipe voip to avoid the international toll charges which would also allow access from site to site to the four independent 64 channel conference bridges. The rest is all identical site to site as far as numbers, all the languages for the systems being in the local native tongue including system prompts.
I was not going to add this, but you seem to have an open mind to understand the global nature of communications, and business. Include a full maint agreement with upgrades, etc., and on site services agreement so the customer does not have to touch even a patch cord, or a punch tool, ever. Troubleshooting Telco issues does not need to be covered in the maint agreement, but in reality it requires on site response on a time, and materials basis by qualified personel as well so it must be available within common service level response agreements for maint contrtacts.
To let you know, in my 15 years I have systems which I have project managed, or pre-programmed and shipped out to 30 states, the Canadian provinces, Mexico, Arab countries, and even shipboard systems. One of my previous employers venture developed call acounting, and system administration tools that ended up with a big boys name plate on it, yet developement stayed in the little boys house, so I have seen some of the eye openings that happen to go from a grain of sand in a thimble to one in the ocean to one in the universe. The ocean represents just the US market.
GS,
I do find your responses to my reply valid, however I do as well have some differences of opinion based on my experience.
1.) All manufacturers, vendors, and systems have strengths and weaknesses in comparison to their competitors, and good techs know what they are for products they are subject matter experts about.
2.) Some customers are concerned with portability including to another local or non-local vendor, supplier, or movement to another state, region, or even cheaper services avaialbility due to multiple service/support options. Just my experience, and what I recomend to my customers when I consult with them is to look at the field of options for qualified vendors in their area. If the company you work for GS for some reason went out of business(it happens), is there another highly qualified vendor locally of your caliber?
3.) Customers do not like to be serviced by a monopoly in all cases, and competition has an effect on the market that consumers can feel is beneficial. If there are only a handful of high caliber national service providors the customer may not like that, and choose a manufacturer with more vendors that can handle their account in house, not to rule out one with its own in house national, or international services.
I have consulted for one company that bought new systems from national service companies only who would do all project management, programming, and configuration in house, yet after warranty wanted only local service.
Again, GS I am answering the posters question not attacking Shoretel, the reality is that Shoretel has strengths, and weaknesses. Please do not take it personally, and do make an attempt to answer the posting yourself, as well as not answering it by disagreeing with myself. I do not mind your disagreement with me, it just does nothing to answer the posting. Saying Shoretel in all cases, for all customers, in all scenarios, in all possible applications, in all places in the world is far better than all of the other options out there is not really productive to the discussion of what complaints are there about Shoretel or their systems. It just makes you sound like a kool-aid drinker.
I used to work for a shoretel implementor who was by shoretel rated number one, and there were complaints about the system/features/phones/prices/differences in what one vendor called a specific feature and its functionality vs another vendors definitions, and function. Users had complaints/suggestions, techs did as well, and so did sales people.
I have some systems I do not recomend unless the system will use a circuit vs analog trunks as the performance of analog trunks does not justify the expenditure, yet with a circuit the feature set is totally different, and thus justifies the expense of the system. Some systems are not cost effective for conference bridge features, and functionality, and it can even be more cost effective to hang another system off of them to add that capability rather than off the main system. That may sound silly to you, but it is not in many cases to the customer. I am an ESI fan for some business types/budgets/sizes, and user types, but would not recomend them outside that niche. Toshiba has had some issues with their analog station cards in the past that my customers have complained about, so I do not recomend them in high analog density applications where lightning is a frequent occurence in the area. Partner ACS is great for flexible ports allowing a multiline, and analog phone off of one port, and is great when needing a cordless to slave off the multiline phone in its AUX port on the bottom of the phone. However it does not do IP telephony all that well, so I do not advise it when that is needed. I could go on about over a few dozen system types that I know intimately enough to cite release based strenghts, and weaknesses, but I think I made my point.
While I have no issue with your opinion being different than mine in your expressing that Shoretel has nothing that anyone has ever complained about, and that no complaint has ever been valid since Shoretel is superior to all other systems in all applications in all ways. I think you could find something to complain about if you were willing to look for a response to the posters question. You seem to be focused on challenging any thought that Shoretel is less than perfect. I personally do not work for a phone system manufacturer, but for my customers, and we do not only offer one system to our customers.
I have however considered a new system coming out from Shorete called the Panacea, lol.
GSmitherman
Programmer
I'll answer the original question. For those who buy ShoreTel they normally love it. We have not had any customers who are unhappy with their purchase.
Aarenot claims it lacks features but has not posted one feature it lacks. Instead he or she writes a novel.
Aarenot claims to know the system. He or she says Shoretel only has one system. This one system grows from 10 to 10's of thousands. Why would they have another system if this one can grow with the company? Name another system that can grow this much.
I don't think anyone here said the system is flawless or perfect. There is no perfect system. I agree with VonZipper. His statement about the other companies not comparing nuts and bolts is true.
Aarenot claims it lacks features but has not posted one feature it lacks. Instead he or she writes a novel.
Aarenot claims to know the system. He or she says Shoretel only has one system. This one system grows from 10 to 10's of thousands. Why would they have another system if this one can grow with the company? Name another system that can grow this much.
I don't think anyone here said the system is flawless or perfect. There is no perfect system. I agree with VonZipper. His statement about the other companies not comparing nuts and bolts is true.
GS,
The posting question is not about me, or my reply. You have still not answered the posts question. They did not ask if the normal emotional response to the system is to love it in all Shoretel implements ever done. They did not ask if there were any that were not happy with the system as a whole in all of the Shoretel implements which have been done by you, or your company. The question was, ( see below)
"Out of the people who have used Shortel are there ANY complaints with the company or phone systems?"
You expect us to believe your answer to this is that the people who have used Shoretel have not ANY complaints. Saying they are not unhappy does not say their are no complaints which is what was asked for, complaints. According to you, the answer is they have no complaints.
Do you realize that you have said that there has been not a single complaint?
You have disagreed with some of my observations about the reality of the situation as being relevant, but have agreed with the statements of fact about the lackings in numbers of qualified techs, and vendors in comparison to other manufacturers. You have also denied the relevance to customers of a market with competitive bidders who can supply local service so as not to lock you in with only one possible providor.
The only way to compare systems is on a customer by customer, specific field application, by specific field application. In some situations Shoretel is not going to prove out to be the best solution comparing all the nuts, and all the bolts, including pricing, and customer requirements.
You claimed I did not mention a single feature which others support, so I will clarify. There are many languages that are not supported by Shoretel each of which would be a feature that is not available. As well there are mamy countries which are not supported by Shoretel which others support. How about non-IP hard phones which are multi-line phones with programmable buttons. A phone which does not require POE, or a power brick besides an analog phone. How about a phone system which works where there is no network wiring infrastructure, or no network besides a small wireless one. These are all features which may, or may not be supported by Shoretel, why dont you tell me which ones are not?
I would agree Shoretel has a niche where they fit, and that does not include the entire market, or all of its sectors. TDM has its place, so do hybrids, key systems, and so do IP only systems. How about customers who do not wish to do voice on the network can Shoretel do this, or not on their data network can they compete in that situation with non-IP? How about doing it on category three cabling infrastructure, quad cable, where more than single pair will require cabling? Some of these things get down to the real nuts, and bolts of comparisons including ability to use existing infrastructures to support the system, or to include the new infrastructure in the cost of new solution.
As you have stated, Shoretel will come in as the best solution in all the mentioned scenarios when taking it down to the real nuts and bolts of comparing solutions.
One more scenario, customer requirement to have 4 to 24 hours of battery back up for the full functionality of the entire voice communication system in a real world situation included in the pricing. With a TDM system the expense would be less all the UPS for all of the data hardware side of the Shoretel equation requirements, now do it without using POE equipment, and use a power brick at the phones, LOL.
Power outages can be quite common in some geographic areas of the market, and some market sectors do often require the voice systems to be functional for the medical, or other staff for a number of hours after the power goes out, and not running off emergency generators either, but you could include those in the pricing if that is a more cost effective solution when comparing the nuts, and bolts against other systems. Some systems can run off marine batteries with the standard provided power interface for the system with only the cost of the marine batteries, and some power cables. Much cheaper than a UPS per hour of functionality provided.
I may not have come up with a valid nuts and bolts scenario where Shoretel does not outshine all others, but then there may be no such scenario, as you have stated.
The posting question is not about me, or my reply. You have still not answered the posts question. They did not ask if the normal emotional response to the system is to love it in all Shoretel implements ever done. They did not ask if there were any that were not happy with the system as a whole in all of the Shoretel implements which have been done by you, or your company. The question was, ( see below)
"Out of the people who have used Shortel are there ANY complaints with the company or phone systems?"
You expect us to believe your answer to this is that the people who have used Shoretel have not ANY complaints. Saying they are not unhappy does not say their are no complaints which is what was asked for, complaints. According to you, the answer is they have no complaints.
Do you realize that you have said that there has been not a single complaint?
You have disagreed with some of my observations about the reality of the situation as being relevant, but have agreed with the statements of fact about the lackings in numbers of qualified techs, and vendors in comparison to other manufacturers. You have also denied the relevance to customers of a market with competitive bidders who can supply local service so as not to lock you in with only one possible providor.
The only way to compare systems is on a customer by customer, specific field application, by specific field application. In some situations Shoretel is not going to prove out to be the best solution comparing all the nuts, and all the bolts, including pricing, and customer requirements.
You claimed I did not mention a single feature which others support, so I will clarify. There are many languages that are not supported by Shoretel each of which would be a feature that is not available. As well there are mamy countries which are not supported by Shoretel which others support. How about non-IP hard phones which are multi-line phones with programmable buttons. A phone which does not require POE, or a power brick besides an analog phone. How about a phone system which works where there is no network wiring infrastructure, or no network besides a small wireless one. These are all features which may, or may not be supported by Shoretel, why dont you tell me which ones are not?
I would agree Shoretel has a niche where they fit, and that does not include the entire market, or all of its sectors. TDM has its place, so do hybrids, key systems, and so do IP only systems. How about customers who do not wish to do voice on the network can Shoretel do this, or not on their data network can they compete in that situation with non-IP? How about doing it on category three cabling infrastructure, quad cable, where more than single pair will require cabling? Some of these things get down to the real nuts, and bolts of comparisons including ability to use existing infrastructures to support the system, or to include the new infrastructure in the cost of new solution.
As you have stated, Shoretel will come in as the best solution in all the mentioned scenarios when taking it down to the real nuts and bolts of comparing solutions.
One more scenario, customer requirement to have 4 to 24 hours of battery back up for the full functionality of the entire voice communication system in a real world situation included in the pricing. With a TDM system the expense would be less all the UPS for all of the data hardware side of the Shoretel equation requirements, now do it without using POE equipment, and use a power brick at the phones, LOL.
Power outages can be quite common in some geographic areas of the market, and some market sectors do often require the voice systems to be functional for the medical, or other staff for a number of hours after the power goes out, and not running off emergency generators either, but you could include those in the pricing if that is a more cost effective solution when comparing the nuts, and bolts against other systems. Some systems can run off marine batteries with the standard provided power interface for the system with only the cost of the marine batteries, and some power cables. Much cheaper than a UPS per hour of functionality provided.
I may not have come up with a valid nuts and bolts scenario where Shoretel does not outshine all others, but then there may be no such scenario, as you have stated.
Here is the best way to compare phone systems for the lay-person. Go download the voicemail and telephone user guides for the sysem you are looking to buy. These are real facts on the products you are comparing as written by the manufacturer. If you do this, you are not reading marketing hype or technician favor, you are learning the true abilities of a system.
Let the buyer decide.
Let the buyer decide.
VonZipper
IS-IT--Management
- May 1, 2003
- 81
I am sorry, but I am not going to build your system, you all ready brought to light that it is not meant for everyone, and I do not have the time to sit down and figure it all out.
Based on this threads original question, yes, there are complaints. I have been managing and installing ShoreTel since 2000, and to say there was never a complaint, that would be rediculous. I will say that there has never been a configuration asked for that i could not provide. That is based on my installs, and my geographic region. That does not mean the guy in Zimbobway will have the same out come. We are a medical corp that has about 41 sites, and we have rolled Shoretel out to 14 to date, with 600+ users. We compared ShoreTel to Cisco and Nortel (we have Nortel option 11 and 61's now that we are replacing). With what we needed, and could forsee needing, Shoretel came out to us as a clear winner.
I will end this with this, If a customer out there is looking for a IP based phone system, ShoreTel deserves your attention. In the VoIP market, ShoreTel is a very high quality, functional phone system that is very hard to beat in price AND functionality.
Based on this threads original question, yes, there are complaints. I have been managing and installing ShoreTel since 2000, and to say there was never a complaint, that would be rediculous. I will say that there has never been a configuration asked for that i could not provide. That is based on my installs, and my geographic region. That does not mean the guy in Zimbobway will have the same out come. We are a medical corp that has about 41 sites, and we have rolled Shoretel out to 14 to date, with 600+ users. We compared ShoreTel to Cisco and Nortel (we have Nortel option 11 and 61's now that we are replacing). With what we needed, and could forsee needing, Shoretel came out to us as a clear winner.
I will end this with this, If a customer out there is looking for a IP based phone system, ShoreTel deserves your attention. In the VoIP market, ShoreTel is a very high quality, functional phone system that is very hard to beat in price AND functionality.
VZ,
I did not really expect anyone to find the best system for this mock up application. It was just an example of details which require investigation to determine what systems have the ability to acomplish the requirements, and in a cost effective manner.
I also agree that Shoretel is a system to consider if you have decided to go full IP, and have no non-IP requirements. I have myself recomended the system to my friends/customers as well in the proper scenarios. I would however not recomend that any system be the only system considered as some here have suggested is the best course in all scenarios.
I did not really expect anyone to find the best system for this mock up application. It was just an example of details which require investigation to determine what systems have the ability to acomplish the requirements, and in a cost effective manner.
I also agree that Shoretel is a system to consider if you have decided to go full IP, and have no non-IP requirements. I have myself recomended the system to my friends/customers as well in the proper scenarios. I would however not recomend that any system be the only system considered as some here have suggested is the best course in all scenarios.
My name is Ben Marbury. I am an outside consultant and the architect of the ShoreTel Customer Satisfaction program. I have interviewed over 2,000 ShoreTel customers and have been interviewing PBX customers and administering PBX manufacturer customer satisfaction programs for 15 years. I also review all the ShoreTel web survey responses.
FYI: Survey invitations are sent to all customers, new and the older installed base.
I keep seeing critical comments here and in other forums that don't seem to match my experience with ShoreTel customers.
I do notice from the various feature comments here that they are general rather than specific in most cases. Many of the comments I hear from customers have more to do with the way the system was set up or the way the customer was trained rather than a specific system flaw.
Of course there are opportunities to improve the system. When a customer suggests one it is forwarded to the appropriate people within my client's organization where they are considered and prioritized.
I'd be interested in any PBX customer satisfaction comments about any manufacturer's products, especially for ShoreTel.
FYI: Survey invitations are sent to all customers, new and the older installed base.
I keep seeing critical comments here and in other forums that don't seem to match my experience with ShoreTel customers.
I do notice from the various feature comments here that they are general rather than specific in most cases. Many of the comments I hear from customers have more to do with the way the system was set up or the way the customer was trained rather than a specific system flaw.
Of course there are opportunities to improve the system. When a customer suggests one it is forwarded to the appropriate people within my client's organization where they are considered and prioritized.
I'd be interested in any PBX customer satisfaction comments about any manufacturer's products, especially for ShoreTel.
All babble... The original question was about complaints... and yes, with EVERY manufacture there ARE complaints.
BUT!
As an engineer for Shoretel, Tadiran, Avaya, Nortel, and Panasonic, I will say this - although Shoretel seems a little flimsy at times, they are generally better than the rest in terms of complaints.
For example, there are many things, glitches if you will, that occur with the shoretel server (or dvm's) - everything from loss of connectivity, weird things happening with workgroups, and odd voicemail problems... BUT, if you run into any of these, generally all it takes is a simple re-boot and everything is good again (if not its almost always user/admin error)
A great thing about Shoretel is that the call routing isnt trashed when you reboot (I know I know.. the WG will be down and the AA will be out for a min or two) BUT COME ON! IS THAT ALL!
Cisco systems need a freaking foot rub before it will behave and god help you if some "weird glitch" were to happen, could take you a week to tear down the programming and build it back up.
Just my opinion.
BUT!
As an engineer for Shoretel, Tadiran, Avaya, Nortel, and Panasonic, I will say this - although Shoretel seems a little flimsy at times, they are generally better than the rest in terms of complaints.
For example, there are many things, glitches if you will, that occur with the shoretel server (or dvm's) - everything from loss of connectivity, weird things happening with workgroups, and odd voicemail problems... BUT, if you run into any of these, generally all it takes is a simple re-boot and everything is good again (if not its almost always user/admin error)
A great thing about Shoretel is that the call routing isnt trashed when you reboot (I know I know.. the WG will be down and the AA will be out for a min or two) BUT COME ON! IS THAT ALL!
Cisco systems need a freaking foot rub before it will behave and god help you if some "weird glitch" were to happen, could take you a week to tear down the programming and build it back up.
Just my opinion.
I don't know of any issues with Cisco IPT systems that take a week to reprogram. Additionally I am not sure what you mean by your comment that they need a foot rub. However, I will take the fact you are an engineer for Shoretel, Tadiran, Avaya, Nortel, and Panasonic so you must listen to a lot of negative talk from 5 vendors. I mean come on, how can you be any good at installing 5 different systems?
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