SEO help, how do you know! 4

[1DMF]

I've read alot on this subject and the main feeling i seem to be getting is - 'do not design a site for search engines' - this is usually what hurts you or what makes you fall foul of their rules.

Ok fine, but how do you know if what you have done is inadvertantly hurting your ranking, how do I know when to put text in an alt tag, W3C forces you to have an alt tag on an image, so is alt="" bad or not?

I also keep reading about reciprical links, but still have not found anywhere that explains how to improve them, on the one hand sites such as link share are classed as 'link farming' and will hurt your ranking, but also why would anyone necessarily put a link on their site to mine.

I don't have a links section on my site, I don't want one or need one, it detracts from the purpose of the site and the service being offered, so therefor i don't have anyone elses link on my site! and feel due to the nature of the website 99% of people wouldn't want to link to the site, they might want to find the site, use its service and seings as 90% of web surfers don't have a site to add my link onto, I don't see how this is such a big part to SEO, but everywhere I read tends to indicate it is?

Are there any free tools I can use to scan my site and tell me if I'm doing good or bad or indifferent, if my site matches my targeted key words/phrases , and indicate where improvement can be made?



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[Foamcow]

text in an alt tag

Cue Chris ;-)

SEO, search engine optimisation. It's just that, optimising your site's content, site structure and backlinks to squeeze the best out of it.

That's the key really. You really have to try to do something that will harm your page's performance. If you play it straight, you'll be ok.

SEO is, by and large, about common sense...

so is alt="" bad or not?

In what way could you imagine that to be bad? If you had a page with images that all had empty alt attributes it won't harm your page. But equally it won't benefit you at all either.

but also why would anyone necessarily put a link on their site to mine.

Because your site is a good resource for that site's users.
Why do you link to other sites? Those site owners are no different from you (well perhaps in some senses, but I won't drag that up in public ;-) )

I don't have a links section on my site, I don't want one or need one, it detracts from the purpose of the site and the service being offered, so therefor i don't have anyone elses link on my site!

Good attitude. You have that about right in my opinion.
Why do you need a links section to link to other sites? Why not include links in your content? If it's relevant that's a good place to have a link. I call this 'natural linking'.


Reciprocal linking is a misleading term. It's the link that matters. The reciprocal bit is junk. If the only way a site will link to you is if you put a link on your site then fair enough. Ask yourself is that other site relevant to you users? If so, put the link in a place where it fits with your content.

Backlinks are important as they give the SEs an indication of how 'important' or relevant your pages are on a particular subject. Remember search engines index pages, not sites.


There are probably software packages out there that will claim to be able to tell you how to optimise your page, but personally I think you just need to get a feel for it.

Get hold a book called 'Search Engine Visibility' by Shari Thurow (New Riders). It will give you the lowdown on the concepts.

There's no magic bullet. In my opinion SEO is kind of a 'give a man a deep sea trawler' kind of thing.




<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[Xaqte]

I'm not saying its perfect, but it definitely helps me in SEO page structure:

http://www.sitening.com/tools/seo-analyzer/

I know this probably doesn't address the exact question, but I do think it focuses in this area.

Hope it helps,
X

 

[1DMF]

Thanks,

Those site owners are no different from you (well perhaps in some senses, but I won't drag that up in public )

but only in a good way right ;-)


I've tested the site and got the following result

Congratulations! Your web design scored 90 points out of a possible 100. Although your web page may not be perfectly optimized, it contains most of the elements necessary for search engine optimization.

it seems i've fallen fould of using the <h> header tag incorrectly.

Your web page appears to use headers elements, but they are not used properly. This usually occurs when header elements are used out of order.

I have used them but used <h2> and then <h4>,<h5> , so I guess all I have to do is change the <h2> to <h1> and then use <h2> & <h3> , reapplying the CSS accordingly. Learnt something new again, <h> header tags are to identify content and order of importance not for displaying something in a set font size! - but come on way back when that's what we did, I didn't want something the size of an elephant <h1> so normally used <h3>-><h5> , but now we have CSS! and the tag becomes more semantic!

If I fix this, that should give me 100% with that site checker , does that mean i'm good to go in terms of submitting it?

How do I check my keywords / phrases , targeted keywords seem to be the buzzword, but my site is for mortgage advice, am I really going to get a good ranking for mortgages / mortgage advice trying to compete against the big boys? - I could have the most 'semantic', 'standards compliant', 'targeted keywords' site in the world but if 30,000 others do as well then i'm going to be No. 30,000 in the list aren't I?





"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[Foamcow]

but come on way back when that's what we did

Cos way back when there was no alternative.
HTML was used to style pages, 'we' don't do that now.

The HTML tag should relate to what the thing it wraps around is and not what it looks like.

As far as which <h> tag you use, I wouldnt worry too much about the difference between an h3 and an h4. The only semantic difference is that one would expect an h4 to be a 'child' of an h3.


Mortgages. Ooh. Competitive sector.
I think the key to finding targetted keywords is to try and nail down specifics. You might not get as many hits to the site, but they are likely to be more interested in your products if you get specific.

For example. If I search for 'hairdressers' I'm going to get alot of results. But being in Gloucester, UK I'm unlikely to be interested in hairdressers in Toronto, Canada.
So lets say I'm going to search on 'hairdressers UK'. Again, I'll get alot of results of no use to me.
Now say I try 'hairdressers Gloucester'. Better, but there are lots of US results because there is a Gloucester in the USA.
How about I go for 'hairdressers gloucester uk'
or 'hairdressers gloucester uk open sunday'

The search will return much fewer results but I am MUCH more likely to go and get my hair cut at one of them.

That's what targetted is about. I think that current thinking is that searchers tend to use 3-4 words in a search query. Very general searches yield lots of results and traffic but most likely few conversions.

So look at your product. Find it's unique selling point (USP), think about your potential customers, try to think what words they might use that would lead them to your product and find it to be what they are looking for.

Taking your 30,000 example. If the company at No1 for the term Mortgages doesn't offer the product I want then I'm not going to buy it whether they are number 1 in Google or not.
Plus, I cost them some bandwidth finding out. If they were running a PPC ad and I clicked it, they wasted their money.

If I fix this, that should give me 100% with that site checker , does that mean i'm good to go in terms of submitting it

Submit it to what? It wont hurt to submit to Google, but if you have links in to the site (which you should build up cos they are very important!) then Google will find and crawl you.

Concentrate on building links to your site.

<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[1DMF]

Thanks again for the reply, as always a couple more questions before I go in peace!

How about I go for 'hairdressers gloucester uk'

I see where your coming from but I see a few problems applying this.

1. I have a nationwide pool of advisers (beings as we are an Appointed Representative Network, authorised by the FSA) and cover the whole of the U.K. and N.I. -> so narrowing down by town or county won't work.

2. If I was on google and wanted only sites from uk , I wouldn't include UK in my search, i'd put a dot in the radio button google provide for UK pages only!

What's the difference?

Submit it to what?

-> well i've just purchased the 'instant traffic' package from 123-reg which will submit it to 400 search engines and also offers a whole host of campaign management tools and stats. I didn't want to submit the site until it was ready.

Also I thought search engines index pages not sites and so you have to submit each page to the search engine? is this not the case.

Regards, 1DMF



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[trollacious]

Four hundred search engines?!? I'd guess that your email address will be getting a lot more spam in the near future. There are less than a dozen commonly used search engines (with various country variations), and in the past it was a given that a good portion of the rest were mainly email address harvesters.

Here's a chart of the results of a Nielsen/NetRatings study on search engine use:

http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=2156451

It appears that the 5 top search engines account for over 90% of the SE traffic.

Lee

 

[1DMF]

well we only have 2 valid active email addresses so that will reduce the amount conciderably, we also have a third party anti spam, virus, content filtering company that manages our email to meet sarbanes oxley, so again no big deal there!

What does concern me is that you are claiming these are not search engines but email harvesters, and if this is so, I have been sold a product under false pretences , with them making claims which are not true and if this is the case , legal action and a refund will be made against them.

We work in the Finanacial Services Sector and so have stingent regulatory rules which govern us and must meet DPA (Data Protection Act 1984, 1998).

I would be suprised if a company as big and respectable (ok maybe a matter of opition) as PIPEX, would engange in such underhand and false business practices.

I would very much appreciate others input on this.

Regards,

1DMF.


"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[trollacious]

I suggest that you obtain a list of the search engines your site was submitted to and go to the website to see what they are. I've run into dozens of minor "search engines" over the years when mistyping or misremembering a domain name. Some are domain names held by investor groups waiting to find someone to sell the domain name to. Few are legitimate independent search engines, and even those that are have so little traffic that their value is extremely low for business purposes.

There are also many very subject-specific search engines and directories that target a small audience, and submitting an irrelevant site to those if your site doesn't target the same market is completely ineffective, though including them in the count makes the submission service sound good.

There are several pretty decent sites with advice and help on search engine submission, and I'd recommend looking at those before paying money to a company that advertises what you've described. Also read the details in the contract or disclaimer from the search engine submission services. They cover themselves real well, and have way more experience in that area than the companies and people they sell the services to.

The email address harvesters DO have search engine websites, though the actual positive traffic they generate for a domain name is negligible.

Lee

 

[Foamcow]

Oh they are search engines. But how many had you heard of?

Yes, SE's index pages and not sites. All you are doing is giving them a URL to start crawling from. But in much the same way they will find your site anyway if you link to it from other pages.


Yes, you could use google.co.uk, I was simply using it as an example of being specific in your search. By selecting UK only search you are basically adding a 'UK' to your query. Perhaps it wasn't the best example.

<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[1DMF]

so if putting a dot in that radio button for UK only pages is actually adding 'uk' to the search phrase, by that token, shouldn't search engines only find those sites that have used 'uk' in their keywords meta tag and the word 'uk' in the text of the site?

does having .co.uk have an effect? as I read Jills SEO on this forum and she says domain names make no difference.

oh well the company has paid for the SEO service from PIPEX, so i'll let you know how I get on

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[ChrisHunt]

By selecting UK only search you are basically adding a 'UK' to your query.

I don't think that's true. The "UK only" search is limited to sites with a .uk domain or whose IP address indicates they're hosted in the UK.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[Foamcow]

Yes Chris you are correct. I didn't word it properly but that's what I meant.



<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[1DMF]

I didn't word it properly

not good when talking SEO me thinks.

How good are your targeted key-phrases!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[Foamcow]

The .co.uk matters if you are hosting on a non-uk server and you want to show up in Google.co.uk

If you have a .com on a US server then you most likely won't get a listing in Google UK (would some very large sites show up I wonder?)

If you have a .co.uk on a US server or a .com on a UK server then you will show up.

I'm not sure if it makes an extra special difference if you have a .co.uk on a UK server.

It does matter. There are threads in here where we thrashed this out quite extensively.


Try this as a test on Google.co.uk
Search 'the web' for 'artworker Gloucester'
You should see my site at number 3. Note the other results on the page.

Now do the same search after you mark the UK only radio button.

My site disappears, the other results remain pretty much the same.

I can say without doubt that when that site was hosted in the UK it showed in the same, or very similar, position for both searches. It is currently hosted in the USA I'll be moving it back to the UK soon so we will be able to see what happens.

<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[Foamcow]

not good when talking SEO me thinks. rofl2
How good are your targeted key-phrases!

Yep, you're right.

I'm making all this up Remember, I'm not an SEO by trade. But I think I've got a reasonable understanding of the things you have asked about.

I'll freely admit to not being an expert But I think the advice I have given here is pretty much right... barring my use of example. lol

<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire

 

[hotfusion]

As regards that website optimisation site mentioned earlier, what do you make of the following site, which doesn't use CSS at all, and uses 'depreciated HTML'? (font etc)

It scored 100 out of 100:

http://www.sddt.co.uk/

Not my site by the way but a friend's.

Also I noticed it penalises you for using inline styles, which have a place if you want just one deviation from the main style. The amount of extra characters needed is similar whether you assign a class, or an inline style. Surely this is why inline styles exist?

Regards, Andy.
**************************************
My pathetic attempts at learning HTML can be laughed at here:
My home page

 

[ChrisHirst]

personally speaking I wouldn't put any faith in any "online SEO checker". They can only do what the programmer tells them to, if the programmer knows nothing or is working from erroneous data then it stands to reason that the "result" will be incorrect.

SEO is not something that can be packaged up into a "Do A,B & C and X will happen" formula. There is a large amount of intuitive skill (almost art) of choosing the right amount and the type of work needed to get a site ranking and converting.

AND better late than never

It's alt attributes


Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Woo Hoo! the cobblers kids get new shoes.
People Counting Systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[1DMF]

Thant's an interesting point foamcow, so after all the millions Google have earnt and their super dooper, searching algorithm, basically it still doesn't work properly.

No wonder SEO is an art and not a science, if the scientists can't get the damn algorithm right!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[Foamcow]

Thant's an interesting point foamcow, so after all the millions Google have earnt and their super dooper, searching algorithm, basically it still doesn't work properly.

Which point? I don't understand what you mean.

It's alt attributes

I thought you were slipping a bit!

<honk>*:O)</honk>
Designease Ltd. - polyprop folders, ring binders and creative presentation ideas
Earl & Thompson Marketing - Marketing Agency Services in Gloucestershire