Section Break (Next Page) turnes into Section Break (Continue)

[cstallins]

We are using Word 2003 SP2, running on on WinXP version 2002 SP2. To briefly illustrate our problem:

Say I have four Word files, called B, C, D and E. Each file is three-to-five pages long, and each file ends with a Next page section break, created by dropping down the Insert menu and selecting Break... > Next page. Remember that - each of the four files ends with a Section Break (Next Page).

I create a fifth file, called A, which is a composite of files B through E inserted as links (because I want to be able to update files B through E and then pull those changes into file A). My new and blank file A is open, and I drop down the Insert menu, select File, and navigate to the file called B. I press the Insert button at the lower-right of the Insert File window and select Insert as Link. I repeat this process for files C, D and E so that, when I finish, file A is made up of files B through E, each inserted as link.

When I review file A and scroll from top to bottom, I notice that file D's text does not begin at the top of the page following the end of file C's text, as you would expect with a Section Break (Next Page) inserted at the end of file C, but rather the Section Break (Next Page) has somehow turned into a Section Break (Continue) during the linking process to file A, and so file D's text begins on the same page and a line or two below the end of file C's text.

Can someone tell me how I can prevent my Section Break (Next Page) from magically and quite erroneously turning into a Section Break (Continue)? You can make the TechPubs team at my office immensely happy with an explanation, and especially with a slick solution.

Thank you for your valuable time,
curtis

 

[fumei]

I notice that file D's text does not begin at the top of the page following the end of file C's text, as you would expect with a Section Break (Next Page) inserted at the end of file C, "

Well...actually, you would not expect that.

Your individual files have a SectionBreak (Next Page) at the end, right?

What does that actually DO?

It makes another page. In other words, there IS another page after the SectionBreak (NextPage). The new files will, correctly, start there, just as they ARE doing.

Remember that - each of the four files ends with a Section Break (Next Page).

No, that is incorrect. It does not end with a SectionBreak (NextPage). It ends with NEW page, a page that is separated from the precvious by a Section Break. But it is a REAL page.

Word is actioning correctly. It is putting the start of the new file, at the end of the previous file...which is, again, a new page.

What to do? For B, C, D, E, after you Insert SectionBreak (NextPage), hit the Backspace. This will delete the one paragraph on the new page (which you just made with SectionBreak (NextPage). In other words, now the file will end up exactly at the SectionBreak.

This could be done easily with a wee VBA macro, including appending the files together as A.

In any case, that is what you have to do. Delete the ONE paragraph mark on the new page, created by SectionBreak (NextPage).

The point being is that is does, indeed make another page.

faq219-2884

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[cstallins]

fumei, thank you so much for your prompt and detailed reply. If I understand you correctly, are you suggesting that the Next Page section break is designed not to *force* the next data to appear at the top of the next document page, but rather to allow the next data to appear immediately after the Next Page break, wherever on the page that may be?

My teammates and I are under the impression that Section Break (Next Page) means "Whoah! We're stopping right here, and whatever data that follows will appear at the top of the next blank page in this document." Is that incorrect?

If our team wants to design documents that terminate such that when we insert them into a larger master doc, each new document that we insert is forced to begin at the top of the next blank page in the master doc, then with what kind of break should we end those smaller documents?

Thank you all for your time,
Curtis

 

[fumei]

My teammates and I are under the impression that Section Break (Next Page) means "Whoah! We're stopping right here, and whatever data that follows will appear at the top of the next blank page in this document." Is that incorrect?

That is correct...but think about that.

"whatever data that follows will appear at the top of the next blank page in this document"

This is precisely what it IS doing.

If our team wants to design documents that terminate such that when we insert them into a larger master doc, each new document that we insert is forced to begin at the top of the next blank page in the master doc, then with what kind of break should we end those smaller documents?

I have already told you. Make the SectionBreak (NextPage), and then Backspace to delete the paragraph mark on that page.

Let's see if I can describe it better.

Doc B

blah blah blah (say this is page 3)

Now, Insert SectionBreak (Next Page). What do you have? You have...

blah blah blah (page 3)
SectionBreak
ONE paragraph mark on page 4

So ANYTHING inserted will indeed "will appear at the top of the next blank page in this document". In other words:

blah blah blah (page 3)
SectionBreak
ONE paragraph mark on page 4
start of inserted file ON THAT PAGE.

are you suggesting that the Next Page section break is designed not to *force* the next data to appear at the top of the next document page, but rather to allow the next data to appear immediately after the Next Page break, wherever on the page that may be?

The SectionBreak is not designed to do anything, except make a Section Break. But yes, that is exactly what it does.

Look at what you are saying.

"the next data to appear at the top of the next document page"

No...but yes. The fact is that next document page starts on the last page of the previous document. It does not start on a new page (which is what you want). It starts (properly) at the first place it can...the last page of the previous document. Not the "next" document.

Compare your two statements.

"data that follows will appear at the top of the next blank page in this document"

"the next data to appear at the top of the next document page"

Two very different beasties.

The first is THIS document (which is what it does if you do NOT backspace).

The second is THE NEXT document.

If you do not remove the paragraph mark - which denotes content on a new page; then the following document will go on that page.

If you DO the Backspace:

blah blah blah (page 3)
SectionBreak
start of new document file

See? The backspace removes the paragraph mark - there is no content on the new page (created by SectionBreak (NextPage)- therefore... the inserted file starts on that page. In other words, right after the SectionBreak.

If you do NOT remove the paragraph mark - there IS content on the new page, and the inserted file will start there.

Sub TerminateMyWay()
With Selection
   .EndKey Unit:=wdStory
   .InsertBreak Type:=wdSectionBreakNextPage
   .TypeBackspace
End With
End Sub

The key to understand Word is that it ALWAYS ends a document with a paragraph mark. Always. The code above makes it look like the document ends with a SectionBreak - and it does. However, the SectionBreak contains a paragraph mark.

It is hard to go into it here. However, understanding the Document Model (the way Microsoft thinks a Document should be) is crucical to understanding Word. The paragraph mark is one of the most (if not THE most) critical things to grasp about Word.

So, to answer your question, as I have stated, end those smaller documents with a SectionBreak (NextPage), then Backspace. The wee code above does exactly that.

faq219-2884

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[cstallins]

fumei, thank you so much for another detailed and thoughtful reply. We are working through your comments and hope to resolve this beastie soon. We greatly appreciate your time.

Curtis

 

[tf1]

One way to resolve the 'problem' and meet your requirments would be to start each document with a style (let's call it FirstStyle) which has the PageBreakBefore attribute.

Because this style is at the start of the document, it won't actually force a new page because it is already on a new page. When you then insert that document at the end (or in the middle) of another document, it will force a new page.

Does that meet your needs?


Regards: tf1

 

[fumei]

Hats off to tf1, because properly speaking that is EXACTLY the way Word is best used...by using Styles.

If you had that FirstStyle (or whatever you want to name it) style set up, and used consistently from a template, you would not have this problem.

faq219-2884

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[cstallins]

tf1 and fumei, my team really appreciates your taking time to offer your insight. I forwarded the Styles tip to our team leader. Thank you very much for your polite and thorough offerings.

Curtis

 

[fumei]

And thank you for the polite appreciation.

faq219-2884

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture