secret to developing applications 5

[bookor]

There must be a secret. Ive been working with vb since version 4 now up to 6. Ive developed several applications including a simple personnel database. But there is one problem I have not been able to overcome, either with vb or access applications. I still can not create an application that will set up, configure and install all the required files, runtimes, odbc files, etc. It is an exercise in frustration to find that every client installed requires a different set of chants and incantations to get everything to run. Then each client is destined to inexplicably stop working from time to time, requiring another set of spells and prayers to get it back up and running. Even machines that are hardware and software identical require different "things" to get them to connect. Ive tried DAO, ODBC, and now OLEDB and ADO and I still can NOT get reliable consistent installs. What is the secret? <br>
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What kind of database connection method is the most reliable, easiest to maintain, etc.?<br>
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[chiph]

IMO, you've got two or three different problems here (maybe).<br>
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1) Consistent installs. I guess you've been using the VB setup wizard? It's OK, but you might want to look at Wise or InstallShield<br>
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2) DLL Hell. Your users are installing software after you've left the room, and the "4th party" install programs are overwriting some of the data-access DLLs you need with older versions. Windows 2000 is supposed to address this issue via something Microsoft calls "Side-by-Side" versioning, which allows some DLLs to be application-specific. But, it's not here today.<br>
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3) "Experts". Your users are monkeying with the settings you need (DSNs, etc). Nothing to be done here, except beat them over the head with a large stick.<br>
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What's the most reliable method of database access? Tough call. I like to keep things simple, so I would recommend ODBC. Just keep an eye on the versions of the database drivers that are on your user's machines.<br>
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Chip H.<br>

 

[johnk]

bookor, So many of us have experienced similar frustrations, particularly with distributed apps using DCOM. Chip H. is right on. I think much of this awaits Win/2000 for solution. One inelegant thing to try is to compile the whole app (or tier) into one big executable. That solves some of the same tier mess.<br>
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As for database access methods, a lot depends on data volumes, response time requirements, remote or local, replication needs, etc. I am committed to ADO using Parameterized Command Objects. I get "native" speeds and genuine database independance (so we can develop with Access or MSDE and deploy with Oracle or SQL Server).<br>
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John K.

 

[bookor]

At least its not just me then. If win2000 could solve this one problem that would make it worth the upgrade. Our last workstations were NT workstation so we are better able to lock the users out of making changes, installing software etc. <br>
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Ive done a couple "front ends" to Oracle databases using ODBC and ADO. I started using ADO when I upgraded to vb6 and based on everything Ive read about ADO being the "way of the future"<br>
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Are any of the third party installers shareware, and do they REALLY do that much of a better job of installing and setting up apps?<br>
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If there's not a better way of doing it, is it possible to make a simple list of the files required for, say an ODBC front end for an Oracle database, and manually copy them and register them as needed? I can almost imagine that being possible for ODBC, but not on ADO, I still dont have a real grasp of how the ado, oledb and odbc components are really interrelated. <br>
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Thanks for the replies.<br>
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[tusconpapa]

Jerry(MIS) I"ve got code that u can use that would solve some of your problems. Psssst give the users ONLY the finished product and OFF LOAD the source to a Zip File.

 

[Ruairi]

Microsoft also offers an newer alternative to the dreaded Package and Deployment wizard. It is called Visual Studio Installer and last i checked was free on their website (If you have a registered version of VB6 or any of the other visual studio tools). I haven't used it yet because it would be new software to learn and at this point i know off the top of my head what dependency files the P&D wizard will neglect to include for an application that uses Crystal, or an access back end, or a SQL Server backend and can manually include these files. It might be worth checking out, it is supposedly very good but who knows. If you continue to use the P&D wizard there are a couple of indespensible tools out there to make your life easier. HandleEx.exe and Modules.exe, both available free on the web (just do a search on those filenames from any search engine. if you cant find them you can email me and i'll get them to you). They are basically Win95/98 (modules) and WinNT(handleex) versions of the same type of program, they can tell you what dll's are in use by a particular process. By looking at these lists while your program is running on your development machine and comparing them to the files the P&D wizard adds to the package you can see what files it's neglecting to include. If you are going to be installing a DB program to a 95 machine, including MDAC_TYP.exe(i think the p&d wiz handles this one) and DCOM98.exe (i think it misses this one) will make your life a whole lot easier. Ruairi

Could your manufacturing facility benefit from real time process monitoring? Would you like your employees to be able to see up to the minute goal and actual production?
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[oneshadow]

**except beat them over the head with a large stick.
hmm.. I love it! LOL

Deploying application is a nightmare. Maintenance it can be another one.

There's a product called Fusion by BitArts (

http://www.bit-arts.com).

It packs linked DLL and exe into 1 single exe file. So your VB application can run on a machine without having MSVBVM60.Dll presence. (I only tested the demo version, but it is so far so good) It may make our life easier.

 

[VBVines]

I am a vb programmer who now works with a group that are committed to web applications. ASP. I am starting to come around to their way of thinking especially after experiencing some inconsistent installs myself. Plus ASP uses a lot of ADO so its not much of a jump. Obviously no install on the users pc's is the biggest plus but you do need to be familiar with IIS. I love working with VB but sometimes its a real pain in the you know what. aspvbwannab

 

[chiph]

> I am a vb programmer who now works with a group that are committed to web applications. ASP. <

Having consistent installs at an ASP is even more critical. One mistake, and you don't just bring down one customer, you bring them all down!

Chip H.

 

[cnealy]

Can someone post a link to Modules.Exe? I got a ton of Web hits in Google, but I'm not sure which one is the right one.