second SBS 2003 2

[jakess]

Have one SBS with IP 192.168.x.x in a workgroup environment which is incorrectly setup. Server is acting as a file server in a workgroup.
Can i now setup the correct SBS with different IP 192.168.16.x. and do the proper setup.
There is an active SQL database on the orginal server.

 

[58sniper]

SBS can't be used as a workgroup server. As you mentioned, it wasn't setup correctly.

You could setup SBS in a new forest & domain. Once that's done, you could theoretically move the SQL database over (assuming you're building the second box as a SBS Premium box). But the second box MUST be in a new forest & domain. Attempting to have two SBS boxes in the same forest won't work.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

 

[jakess]

1. Can i use the same IP range for this new SBS server..192.168.0.x?

2. Also i noticed that the router have DHCP enabled. I'm not sure yet how to disable DHCP on the router so what will happen if i setup DHCP on the SBS server? From where will the pc get their IP first?

 

[ShackDaddy]

You can use the same range if you are smart about it.

During the setup of the new server, disable DHCP on the router. The clients should hold on to their addresses till the lease times expire, which should be several days. Then build DHCP on the new server and pick a range of addresses for it that does not overlap with the range that the router is using. If the router uses the whole subnet, then start your new range higher than the highest assigned IP. So if the router is assigning IPs x.x.x.3 to x.x.x.254, it probably has only given out addresses up to x.x.x.26 or something. You could set your range at x.x.x.100 to x.x.x.175 or something like that. Make sure that when you set up the server you give it a static IP and configure it to point at itself for DNS. Make sure you mainly configure it through the Task wizards. You can get granular on some things later, after things are working properly.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[jakess]

ok thanks.
The name given to orginal server and AD.local name doesn't make any sense to me so will it be advisable to change this if i decide to keep the orginal box.
No one have joined the domain yet.

 

[jakess]

To finalise my project:


Can i now safely add a second SBS 2003 server on our network and put it in a different domain.
Using the same IP range but giving the new server a static IP address.Netgear router in doing DHCP for now.
Install all packages like Exch etc.Join test pc to new domain and make sure everything is working they way it should be.

 

[58sniper]

Yes.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

No, you cannot have a second SBS on your network with a different domain name but using the same IP Subnet. You need to keep them in separate subnets (ie, 192.168.16.x and 192.168.26.x)



Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[ShackDaddy]

Jeff, if DHCP is turned off, will anything prevent him from building a new server and forest on the same subnet? I'd like to differentiate between "ought" vs. "can".

Since you can build non-SBS domains on the same subnet, it doesn't make sense that you can't with SBS domains. In actuality, I have two SBS servers on the same subnet in my lab without a problem, once I sorted out how I was going to handle DHCP.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

No you can't do that either... because the DNS needs to route through the SBS for the SBS's clients, and through the other Server for it's clients. Using the same IP subnet will cause all sorts of unwanted DNS issues... and it makes no sense at all to even attempt straightening those out.

But there's a bigger issue here... unfortunately for jakess, you can't have two SBS's. You don't mention how many client workstations you have, but I wonder if you even need a second server? I have plenty of customers using just a single box for everything and it works just fine... because that's how SBS was designed.



Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[ShackDaddy]

Let's get back to the basic pragmatic goals. The new server setup is just for the purpose of migration. It's not for extended concurrent use. The goal, as I see it, is to make the new server the DNS for all clients, and add an A-record in for the old server for the purpose of handling the SQL line-of-business app till it is migrated.

Whatever you feed to the clients for DNS will be what they use for resolution henceforth. The situation is one that non-SBS net-admins deal with all the time in mid-to-large environments, and the problems are simply surmounted. As long as the clients are configured to use the new server for DNS, they can easily join the domain. As it is, they aren't in a domain at all, so they have little to lose.

There don't seem to be many clients, either, so manually setting DNS would take a minute per client if they are in the same office. In any case, DHCP isn't a holy grail in every environment.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

I'm sorry but the title of this question was "Second SBS" not SBS migration. So I've responded to that.


Regarding "the situation is one that non-SBS net-admins deal with all the time" misses two important issues. This network is not being managed by a non-SBS net-admin, and non-SBS net-admins don't deal with the SBSCORE service nor do they deal with preconfigured default DNS and AD.

But the point is moot. There is no STANDARD Server 2003 mentioned here at all... just two SBS's. With the comment that he may decide to keep both. And you can't do anything with that situation unless you use the Transition Pack on one... but that's a bit pricy because it also converts CALs which wouldn't need to be done in this case.

So... if this is truly a hardware migration, then there are only FOUR methods that work within the SBS realm:

1. Use Microsoft's migration method (

http://sbsurl.com/migrate).

This will require that you create a new domain name as part of the transition.

2. Migrate Manually. ie, set up the new server and re-add all of the users manually. If there are less than 10 users or so, this isn't a bad idea... especially if there are wrong configurations to begin with. Mailboxes are migrated with ExMerge and Files with a USB Hard Drive. You just build out the new server and domain. Workstations must be removed from the old domain and joined to the new one.

3. Backup with Acronis True Image Server 9.1 with Universal Restore and then restore to your new server.

http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/

http://download.acronis.com/pdf/rg/atis9.1_rg.en.pdf

A pricey option, but it works beautifully.

4.

http://www.sbsmigration.com

The SBS Professional's Community choice for this type of migration. (my choice as well) The benefits of the Swing Migration method that SBSMigration will provide the documentation for are tremendous... you can perform the migration at your own pace. There is NO downtime on the network, no late nights trying to make sure things are working before everyone gets in at 8:00am, complete roll-back, wrap-around documentation that will be able to stay with the network, etc, etc.

Now these are based on having a fully running SBS in service, which is not the case here... it's a broken install to start with... so my recommendation is that the new server be put in it's own domain on a separate IP subnet and that the SQL database on the old server be migrated over. Fairly simple since the workstations aren't even joined to a domain yet.





Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[jakess]

Thanks for the discussion.
Lets have another look at my situation:

A SBS was setup with SQL and nothing else. It is still in a workgroup.
DNS and DHCP is with the router.
IP 192.168.0.X range

I want to remove this box and install SBS including everything like DHCP, DNS, Exch and SQLetc on a new server box.

My problem is that the company have been using SQL for months now so i need the existing SBS up so that i can move that data to the newly buildt server.
My problem is can i add this newly buildt SBS server to the network with same IP range and leave the DHCP on the router for the time being.
Once i'm happy with the new server i want to add DCHP to the server, disable DHCP on router, and move the SQL data to the new box.
So in practice i need both boxes on the network with the same IP range so that i can add users to the domain etc and while they continue working on SQL on the old server.
Hope it all makes sense to you all.

 

[ShackDaddy]

Makes perfect sense. If you read my input, you will see a single-subnet scenario in which you can still have your clients access the SQL database even after they have been joined to the new domain and are using the new server for DHCP and DNS. If you decide you want to split out to two separate subnets for one reason or another, I'm sure TechSoEasy will be glad to walk you through that process.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[ShackDaddy]

Jakess, you've asked a lot of questions in this forum and never marked a single answer as helpful. I think that TechSoEasy gave you some great advice in this post and pointed you toward some links that are probably exactly what you need.

Even more than I do, TechSoEasy goes out of his way to be consistently helpful, so whenever he gives me a good solution, I try and reward him with an appreciation star.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[jakess]

My apologies for this. I do appreciate all the help but have walked into a very disorganised IT environment. Hope i can still count on your excellent and continous support.

 

[ShackDaddy]

Of course you can. I know how frustrating it can be to board a leaking ship. You'd like to put up the sails, but you're stuck doing carpentry.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

A SBS was setup with SQL and nothing else. It is still in a workgroup"

I think that's where I find the problem. This cannot realy exist. So I wonder if it's truly an SBS. But that aside, if you aren't currently operating anything on a domain, then there would be no probem having the new SBS be on the same subnet.

My question then, is why would you keep DHCP on the router? Since you are going to move it to SBS anyhow, and since SBS prefers to be running DHCP, why not just do that when you deploy the new server? You would just need to turn off DHCP on your router, use a single NIC on the SBS and assign the SBS an IP that's within the current subnet.

SD: Thanks for the kudos.

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[jakess]

I will add DHCP to SBS box later but their is another wireless network connecting to the Netgear router and i was just thinking that they will have problems getting IP addresses from the SBS DHCP box.
Will the wireless network pc's have any problems with DHCP on the SBS box if i disable it on the router?

 

[ShackDaddy]

No, they shouldn't. They will be able to broadcast requests to DHCP and aquire leases in the same way regardless of the sources of the DHCP lease pool. Being wireless doesn't change that.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting