Say goodbye to WinMe - Microsoft has... 3

[dbMark]

Windows Millennium Edition has reached the end of its rope, its "product life-cycle" according to Microsoft. Although it will still provide licenses during 2004 to "System Builders" whoever that is, Direct OEM and Retail markets were dumped and cannot buy licenses after December 31, 2003.

Windows Millennium Edition just entered its "Extended Support phase" for the year 2004. Don't feel to bad, poor old Windows 98se is entering its "Non-Supported phase" in 2 weeks and will remain in limbo for one year after which it will encounter its own official "End of Life".

Pinch me someone, no more security tests or fixes for Windows 98, 98se or Me? Isn't that a huge segment of computers out there? Isn't that an open invitation for spammers, hackers and spackers to use yet-to-be-discovered future unaddressed vulnerabilities to attack and inundate everyone else with even more worms, ads and spam?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycleconsumer.mspx

 

[Marcs41]

Surely you must understand those version are 4-6 years old. At some point in time it is a bit normal updates will stop.
Compare this to most other software brands, they don't keep updates that long!
And, the support pages will still be there, just no new patches.

Marc
[sub]If 'something' 'somewhere' gives 'some' error, expect random guesses or no replies at all. Please specify details.
Free Tip: The F1 Key does NOT destroy your PC![/sub]

 

[oldcomptrguy]

Lets not over react. Many people are just looking for an excuse to bash Microsoft. How long does GM warrant their autos?

Security updates will continue to be provided for both 98 and ME. Micorosoft never was very good with the tech support anyway.

For tech support these forums will continue to be avaiable. I still see post here for 95 and somebody aways seems to know the answer.

 

[SkipCox]

You just can't imagine the number of websites that continue to provice support patches and fixes for 3.x and 95fe...the same will remain true for 98 and Me.

Skip

http://home.comcast.net/~scox9/index.html

 

[WheeDoggy]

~oldcomptrguy

What does GM have to do with M$?!?

If GM cars were built like M$ Windoze 9X series, when you bought the car you would learn the true meaning of a "crash" when the axle cracks and a wheel flies off as you drive it off the lot.

After this, the service department tells you that it will take 90 days to patch your cars imperfections.

The day that the car is "fixed" the timing chain would pop before you got the car home.

The perfect patch to M$:

http://www.linuxiso.org

 

[oldcomptrguy]

WheeDoggy, it looks like you are just anti Microsoft. You have blinders on.

What I meant, was that GM only gives a limited time warranty on their product. You expect Microsoft to give a forever warranty on their product. What other corp does that?

I don't care to get into a pro/com Microsoft discussion.

 

[livewire]

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I will be happy when 95, 98 and ME are erradicated from the face of the planet. 2000, XP and even NT are far superior. I do not miss "Illegal Operations" and system hangs over something as simple as a screen saver. Good ridance.

 

[Blujacket]

When speaking of longevity of products, the only one that comes to mind is that due to Federal regulations, a 1935 commercially-built single-engine airplane has to meet the same basic airworthiness standards and most replacement parts certifications as a 1985 airplane.

 

[cdogg]

In response to dbMark:

Yes, the increase in attacks for NT systems will probably happen eventually (though probably not on the day Win98SE's or WinME's life cycle ends). But the same is almost always true for any OS that consumes a majority of desktops.

And like Skip said, there will be a ton of sites out there posting all the updates for Win9x/ME for a long time to come. Also if you want, you can download all the updates manually from Mi¢ro$oft and burn them to CD.

_______________________

I won't get into the bash/favor MS debate, but here's some food for thought:

- Did anyone force you to purchase Windows?
- If you blame that one on the industry (software demands), then aren't they to blame for exerting all the pressure and focusing all the attention on MS?
- Most importantly, how much did you pay for your copy of Windows?
- If it came pre-installed (OEM) with the purchase of your PC, then do you really have much room to complain?
- Even if you did purchase it retail and the product was far from perfect, did it not give you the $100-200 worth of service for as long as it lasted on your PC?

~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle

 

[dbMark]

In response to many comments above, I was not griping or bashing, mainly outlining some risks of newer computers having to coexist with increasingly vulnerable older computers.

(1) Few programs have reached the extensive use and distribution as has Windows, so its impact is immense. The problem facing Microsoft is that their older software still works just fine for many millions. Sure, not as stable and advanced as the newer versions but it does what they need it to do.

(2) Many still use Windows 98, 98SE and Me. They don't need a lot of bells, whistles or a more crash-resistant environment. Maybe they just want to browse the Internet, play some games, write email. If their current version suits them fine, great! But at the point MSFT stops fixing new vulnerabilities, then those computers have a high risk of getting commandeered by trojans and spammers which then makes it a problem for all other users. Yes, many websites do step in with great additional support, but MSFT has never to my knowledge ever released their source code, so any "fixes" would often be a lot of guesswork, workarounds and hopes.

(3) As I understand it, Windows 98 and 98SE will lose virtually all MSFT support in another week, and Me at the end of 2004. I posted the original message since WinMe was entering its year of "extended support phase" which I thought was newsworthy. If I'm wrong, sorry.

(4) If Microsoft were struggling to break even or eke out a minimal profit, as is the case with most software and hardware companies, it would be easier to understand a company's inability or reluctance in attempting to fix security issues in older versions. With some $50-60 billion dollars in cash, much more than any other software company, Microsoft is in an awkward position where it can't say it's limiting or dropping support do to unavailable resources or funds.

(5) Speaking of the latest versions, I can go out and buy Windows XP new hot off the shelf or a new computer with XP installed, but it will be an XP SP1 version last updated over a year ago. If any newer security patches are on that new computer, then I'd expect those were added by the vendor. Microsoft STILL has not provided a Windows XP install CD containing fixes for the Blaster and other serious vulnerabilities. To get the fixes most users have to get online to download 20-40 megabytes of fixes, a tough thing to do over a modem and risky too if they didn't turn on the firewall. Too bad MSFT didn't spend some pocket change (so to speak) to stack boxes of Windows update CDs at every checkout lane like AOL an EarthLink have done. In short, Microsoft lost a public relations opportunity to make friends by limiting the ways their users can get updates.

 

[Marcs41]

Sorry to pick on your point 4, but after all, Microsoft is a business, and is there to make money, not to keep you happy.
In off-topic analogy, if the VCR industry were to keep making and fixing, BetaMax, Video 2000 and VHS for eternity, less room is left for innovation.
Everyone knows VHS was the least good choice quality wise, but since all major companies were behind it, they won the battle. Can you imagine what it would be for a service center to keep parts and repair people/resources to keep providing support for 'old' stuff?

The same goes for software. If a client running Windows 98 or ME has a problem, I strongly advice them to make a step up to XP, or at least 2000. Fixing driver issues on 98 and ME can be a nightmare and newer product don't even provide drivers for it anymore. So, it is not only Microsoft dropping support, there are no benefits in keeping developing drivers for a long out-of-date OS, Microsoft or any other.
Go try and find decent support and fixes for Novel Netware 3 or OS/2 2.0 or so. They dropped that long ago.

 

[cdogg]

Grab a cup of coffee before you take a seat! This could be a while...


1) Sure, a large number of desktops (particularly ones with legacy hardware) lack the need to upgrade in order to perform their tasks. However, two important factors need to also be considered - networking and software.
[tab][tab]- Software developers have already grown weary of supporting multiple Windows
[tab][tab] platforms (Adobe Premiere Pro 7.0 is a perfect example, which will only run
[tab][tab] on XP). Code is also working its way up into the 64-bit world. So unless
[tab][tab] the desktop in question doesn't plan on changing its software, then the point
[tab][tab] is moot.
[tab][tab]- The need to keep a Win98 PC networked is the other factor. Unless the
[tab][tab] user is satisfied with their PC in an isolated environment, then it is not
[tab][tab] a company's responsibility to provide indefinite support. You must think of
[tab][tab] network security as more of a feature than a function of the OS, subject
[tab][tab] to a reasonable life cycle of support.

(2) When Skip and I mentioned that updates would continue to exist, we were referring to ones that are currently out on the Windows Update site, not that new ones would continue to appear...Again, a consumer must understand that access to the internet is not confined to the OS. It is not an isolated environment that can easily be controlled by Mi¢ro$oft, nor is it a function that defines an operating system. The 'want' or 'need' to continue internet access falls outside the scope of a single OS's lifespan and must include its successor(s).

(4) "[blue]Microsoft...can't say it's limiting or dropping support do to unavailable resources or funds[/blue]"
Did they say that? I doubt they, or any other competitor for that matter, would ever use that line of reasoning. MS likes to be considered as the catalyst that drives innovation (). The decision to enforce a product's life cycle would always be defended as such, which should come to no surprise!

(5) Now this is a valid gripe! There is a lot of room for improvement here. At the very least, MS should offer the updates on CD for a small shipping & handling fee. If they do, the option is not heavily advertised on their site and should be.


I still think the bottom line is whether you get your money's worth. Spending anywhere from $0 - $200 for an OS that yields up to 5 years of mainstream support, 1 year of extended support, and 8 years of online self-help support seems worth it to me...



~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle

 

[Marcs41]

Another point is, how long exactly would you want it to be supported? In a few years will you be running Windows 95 on a Pentium 12 - 46 GHz with 8192 GB RAM on a 25000 GB Harddisk?
You want to celebrate the 25th Windows 95 Anniversary in the year 2020 ?
It may be a nice 'emotional' touch but I think 8 years is a long time for any OS or application.
Even application compatibility is already a major issue right now for many companies.

 

[dbMark]

Thanks for the comments. At least cdogg agreed with one point.

XP and/or Linux is better than older Win98, Win98SE and WinMe.

XP SP2, coming in a few months, will finally wrap up the Blaster worm and other security vulnerabilities of the past year or so.

The world community will still have lots of users connecting to the internet for years to come with increasingly insecure older OS/computers in the years to come, especially in third world countries where many can only afford second-hand computers. (Since we can't track down every last infected computer, maybe ISPs will be required to block or detect virus behavior. Hard to enforce that across national borders, though. Time will tell. Until then the recipient/browser has to protect himself and wade through all the extra traffic.)

One last conjecture: Already many have 1 gigabyte DRAM or even more loaded on their computers. Once people find out they can't squeeze more than 3 or 4 gigabytes of DRAM memory into their 32-bit computers, all of a sudden no one will buy a new power computer without 64-bit capabilities.

 

[cdogg]

Yes, 4GB is the memory limit for 32-bit OS's. And even a Win9x/ME PC will have trouble running more than 512MB unless certain features are disabled.
(Read why here: faq615-2438)

"[blue]...all of a sudden no one will buy a new power computer without 64-bit capabilities[/blue]"
Very true and another reason why companies like MS must focus more of their attention on designing a so-called "flawless" 64-bit OS, which should be Longhorn released in 2006. They may have the resources to stretch themselves out and continue supporting legacy systems for users that are no longer adding to their revenue, but are they obligated to? That's the question we all seem to have our own answer for...

~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle

 

[RebeccaLynn]

Let us not forget .. Microsoft is a business. Therefore it's primary goal is to make money. In order to make money with software you have to continually improve the product and encorage consumers to buy the new versions. (The same holds true for pretty much any product) If you were to warrent, or patch, or fix the old product for ever (for free) you would soon not be making money.

Consumers spending money is good for the economy, so Microsoft is in it's own way helping the growth of the economy by encouraging consumers to buy new upgrades.


Becca

Somtimes, the easy answer is the hardest to find.

Still under construction ...

http://webpages.charter.net/rlmsoft

 

[cdogg]

Becca,
That's the way I tend to look at it as well. However, you'll find that it's hard for anyone to disagree with your point about infinite support.

It isn't really a question that implies that Mi¢ro$oft should support an OS release forever. Instead, I find myself constantly responding to criticisms like:

1) Not patched up-to-date at the time of release
2) Brakes almost instantly after being fixed
3) Waste more money and time than its useful worth
4) Easy target for hackers, viruses, and other vulnerabilities
5) Support cut-off too soon, and/or no OEM support from MS (a lot of big-name vendors have gone out of business since Win95 was released like Packard Bell, Digital, etc)

Now just in case you can't tell, I'm neither a supporter nor opponent of MS. Most of the time, complaints like this come from users who are at least partly responsible for their trouble. But some of the time, the user has every reason to be upset.

There needs to be a fair balance between how much the consumer should have to pay vs. how well the product performs and lasts. In my opinion, MS has done a pretty good job of recovering since the days of 95 and 98FE. But I still feel that there is more they can do in terms of support.

~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle

 

[cdogg]

[navy]This type of discussion is probably best suited in the Ethics forum. Here's a current thread that many of you might be interested in:[/navy]

thread717-731544

~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle

 

[dbMark]

Update by dbMark... Several news sites have reported today that Microsoft is going to extend support for 3 older Windows versions: 98, 98 Second Edition and Millennium Edition. The support will now match the longer 5+2=7 year schedules for active+extended life cycle support previously reserved for the newer Windows versions such as Windows 2000 and XP. Microsoft has extended support for all 3 operating systems until 30 June, 2006.

Also a ZDNet article in December 2003 mentioned that Microsoft was betatesting the concept of an update CD "designed to provide critical security updates to users of older editions of Windows". It "will be of special benefit to customers with slow Internet connections and for those customers who typically do not visit the Microsoft Web site to download updates for their computers".

Therefore, the title of this thread does not apply any more.

 

[BIS]

Yes indeed:

http://news.com.com/2100-1016-5139644.html?tag=nefd_hed