sata HDD drive(s) issue

[scubapantheist]

I have a 500 gig sata HDD that is used 100% for storage, music, movies etc. The power went out and as you can guess the battery on my UPS was dead. On reboot the drive did not show. I tried other jumpers, power cords etc. I listened carefully and the drive makes the 'initial' spin up, but does not make the spin to full speed. The drive has been used in this system for this use for over a year. I don't want to lose family pictures/movies. the music etc can be reinstalled but takes days to do. is there any other tests/options I can do to try to save the drive/data?

Also my "main" Sata HDD "200 gig" started making that click pause small thump sound about 6 months ago. My son dropped something on the desk and that's when it started, there has been zero performance issues, and if I shut the computer down and reboot it does not make the sound for a week or so. Should this drive also be replaced?

I will be replacing the UPS asap! but what else can I do or try?

 

[BadBigBen]

when you say the drive does not show up when you rebooted, is this in the BIOS or under Windows?

if it is recognized under the BIOS and not Windows, then there is a chance that you could recover the files...

if the BIOS does not recognize the drive, then the drive is DEAD... and only an expensive Data Recovery Firm can help you there...

As to the second 200gB drive, I would definitely replace that drive, one it is making strange noises and two it has had a shocking experience, both trough your Son dropping something hard on the desk and the power outage...




Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[scubapantheist]

thanx Ben

Both are the answers I feared but expected. what is the best RAID to use to prevent HHD failure and data lose in the future? Im just going to do a 500 gig total space. how many HDD will I need to buy? I am very unhappy/unlucky with SATA drives. I run IDE Hard Drives on the other 2 computers (2 in each)in the house with no UPS on either and have never had a failure of any kind, 1 of them has been running 24/7 for almost 6 years now, I have lost 7 SATA drives in that time frame.

 

[scubapantheist]

Sorry but after reading some other threads I thought it worth adding that I built all three computers, my son (8 year old) and my daughter (16 year old) both have their own computers and can do most all hardware work, its awsome watching an 8 year old swap out a Hard drive!!! none of the computers even have the side panels on them, I got tired of taking them on and off.

I am also looking at adding a ESATA drive to my direct tv HD DVR as the one included is "flaky" (volume dropouts, etc) at best and almost full, anyone have a suggestion? it has a ESATA port on the back that looks like a standard SATA plug, but im guessing buy the name it also carries power to the drive.

Also, does anyone have exp replacing the HDD in the new XBOX360? the old xbox was easy, but the 60 gig on my current system is almost full and the price to buy the 200 gig drive is the same as replacing the entire system!!! so I was gonna put a 500 gig in the thing. Its already voided as I cut it open and added 2 80mm fans to prevent the red rings since the kids can run it for 20+ hours straight on weekends etc doing online gaming.

and to think, this isnt my only "hobby" and far from the most expensive!!!

 

[goombawaho]

Please don't ask multiple questions in one thread. Start one for each since they're not related to the original (ESATA and XBOX).

Here's the definitive answer on what you should do.

1. Download and burn the ultimate boot CD
2. Unplug all but one hard drive from the system leaving ONLY either the 200 OR 500GB drive attached.
3. Boot from the UBCD
4. Use the manufacturer's hard drive test from the UBCD to test the first drive. Run SHORT test first if it's an option. If errors are found, run long test after short test.
5. It will tell you if the drive is okay or not from a physical/mechanical perspective.
6. Turn off computer. Unplug first drive/plug in 2nd drive.
7. Re-test using steps 3 - 5

Now you will have some solid info on whether each drive is alive. Report back what the test results were.


The simplest RAID is a RAID1 (mirroring). You get 1/2 the storage capacity. If you have two 500GB drives, you get 500GB of storage space. Hardware RAID is far superior to software RAID so you need a controller built onto the motherboard or an add-in PCI/PCI-E RAID controller.

I happen to like Adaptec. There are others.

 

[scubapantheist]

sorry about the multiple questions.

im downloading the software but wont get to install it till tomorrow.

the 200 gig has not made a sound in the last 10 hours running constant.

will share results asap

 

[BadBigBen]

goombawaho suggested the use of UBCD, do so and test BOTH drives the 200gig and the 500gig, if they FAIL in any way, replace them...

he also mentions RAID 1, as being the simplest and cheapest way to go in having DATA security, there is also RAID 5, here you would need 3 drives minimum...

have a read on RAID:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

it has a ESATA port on the back that looks like a standard SATA plug, but im guessing buy the name it also carries power to the drive.

it is not a standard SATA plug... and it does not carry power, power for the drive has to be fed externally...

read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATA#External_SATA

Upgrade Your Xbox 360's Hard Drive on the Cheap

http://www.pcworld.com/article/150970/upgrade_your_xbox_360s_hard_drive_on_the_cheap.html

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[scubapantheist]

thank you so much Ben and the others!

I honestly can not afford to buy UBCD right now. I did find "Ultimate Boot CD" for free. is this a acceptable alternative to UBCD?

I put a 80 gig IDE HDD I had laying around in the machine and installed XP pro on it and for the time being I will be using the IDE drive as my system drive. Is my bad luck with SATA drives normal? just asking.

Thanks again

 

[BadBigBen]

UBCD = Ultimate Boot CD...

and it is free!!! You should never have to pay for that...

other alternatives would be to go to the SATA DRIVE manufacturers website and there you can download their free utility to check the drive, e.g. if the drive is made by Seagate/Maxtor then the website of Seagate should have the appropriate tool... Exception being Toshiba and some of the NoName branded drives out there, they do not have any tools to download, in its place use the SeaTools from Seagate instead...

Is my bad luck with SATA drives normal?[/quote}

I've been using SATA for years and have seen those problems and lots of others, e.g. Firmware being bad, etc. ...

drives are mechanical and electronic devices, and we all know that mechanics can fail, also due to power fluctuations and surges the electronic part can fail...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[goombawaho]

I wouldn't say that SATA HDD failures are any more prevalent than with the older PATA drives.

It's more about conditions - heat, shock and power fluctuations that will help to kill a drive.

Sorry I confused you with my abbreviation - UBCD.

 

[kjv1611]

scubapantheist,

Two words:
Static Electricity.

You said you leave the sides of the cases open all the time - you're just asking for problems with doing that. There are many possible problems there, but static electricity is what's coming to my mind as the most likely culprit (if there is one).

On your data protection settings, if the data is really important, and it's possible, I'd do this:

1. Set up a RAID 1 array of 2 1 TB disks (or if you are insistent upon it, go with the 500GB drives)
--Why RAID 1? Easiest to configure, AND easiest to recover - if one drive fails, you just read the other drive - with or without RAID hardware. That's not necessarily the case with other RAID setups. Just imagine your RAID hardware goes bad... say your motherboard. You'd have a more difficult time recovering any RAID array than RAID 1.

2. Back-up that RAID 1 array to a basic disk - either an external hard drive or another internal drive in another PC. One great program for basic/simple backups, even scheduled (my opinion) is SyncBack (It's 100% free).

3. Verify your backups ever so often - make sure your data is actually being backed up! ;0)

4. You could also look into off-site or online backup:
a. Send a hard drive with the files to a family member or friends house ever so often (swap out drives, whatever)
b. Online Backup - many are out there, and free, up to certain size limits - those limits are (or at least were) constantly expanding. Some are unlimited in storage space for paid accounts.

Well, that may all be too much to think about, but hopefully it'll help a little.

Also, if you can't get your data off your failed drive(s), you could just do something creative with the parts with your children for fun! You can open them up, and just come up with a project to build something with the parts. I've found several examples online - just go a searchin'.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[scubapantheist]

I run 6-10 fans on each of my computers so heat is never an issue. this leaves holes all over the cases. But i seam to always be swapping HDD between the 3 computers, so I have just decided to leave the sides off. I could/should put the one on my sons back on. I will do a raid when I build up my next machine. I do no gaming on the machines. (we have Wii /xbox/ xbox360/ and PS3 in the house so the computers are mostly for reading news,email, fantasy sports, youtube, facebook etc. My sons is 95% webkins. and my daughters is just IM and email. But I tend to save tons of pictures, videos, and audio files, this is what I have lost with this HDD.

I might just get 2 1TB HDDs and do a raid 1 and wait to build a new machine.

I have taken apart every failed HDD I welded each of the kids names on platters from one drive, they are hanging on their doors! and I have 2 speakers sitting on driver platters!

Eric (V1PER) the nerd.
'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.'
As my Tag says, I am an TECHNICAL SCUBA Diver. And a Scientific Pantheist.

 

[kjv1611]

==>I have taken apart every failed HDD...

That's what I'm talkin' about! [ROFL2]


--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[kjv1611]

I still say you've got a big risk there with leaving the sides of the PC cases open. The reason that heat could be a problem is that regardless of the number of fans, the cases are designed to work enclosed. Also, if the machines are mostly running web apps and stuff, I highly doubt you need that many fans anyhow.

If you're constantly swapping hard drives, maybe you need to rethink what you're doing? That's unless you're doing so for some learning experience. If you have them on the same router, which I imagine you do, you could just transfer files over the network. If you just have home pictures and videos mostly, then any router that is at least 100Mbit rated would handle your transfer needs just fine.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[hinesward]

Both are the answers I feared but expected. what is the best RAID to use to prevent HHD failure and data lose in the future?

There is nothing you can do to prevent hard-drive failure. Having a good UPS certainly does reduce the chances of it happening. A cool environment and regular cleaning help as well.

RAID does not prevent anything. It does not prevent your hard drives from failure. It does not prevent data loss. RAID simply creates a redundant array of independent disks. That means if one disk fails, the other disks still do the job.

There is one thing that prevents data loss. It is called backup. The most important thing to keep in mind here is that RAID is not backup. You backup your data nightly or at some regular interval to a second drive or even to an off-site location. You keep a few backups there. If you something happens, you can restore your files from the backup.

In case there is any confusion, as a lot of people have trouble understanding this, I repeat: RAID is not backup.

RAID is not backup.

 

[goombawaho]

RAID is not backup" - I think you repeated that three times. That is a correct analysis though. Some form of RAID + an on-site backup + an off-site backup are the three methods of safeguarding your data.

Mozy or Carbonite for off site backup is not a bad idea. Hardware (not software) RAID 1 for your RAID setup. Lots of motherboards come with RAID now or you can buy an add-in PCI/PCI-E card.

Then if you want to be really covered, you have a Ghost or Acronis IMAGE of your operating system so it takes minimal time to get your system running again.

 

[kjv1611]

Both are the answers I feared but expected. what is the best RAID to use to prevent HHD failure and data lose in the future?

RAID is not backup - that's already been established.

However, if you're looking for at least a RAID setup that will provide you some peace of mind, go with RAID1. If one disk fails, AND the motherboard or RAID controller fails, you can still get the data off the non-failed drive - no problem. Just connect to another PC if necessary, and grab the data as necessary. That will work so long as it doesn't give you a bad performance bottleneck... in most cases, it wouldn't... and with that, you don't HAVE to have a hardware RAID card. Today's motherbaords seem to do very well with their onboard RAID.

Then you backup your RAID array to a non-raid disk for further protection (not in the same computer) - external drive or different computer. And then if you can and want to, set up an online offsite backup OR set up a routine with a friend or family-member for an offsite backup.

Anyway, that's my cent and a half.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[scubapantheist]

Ok we are getting a tad TO technical. The games I play are 95% able to run on a P4 3 ghz, with 3.11 ram installed and a 129 mb PCI video card!!!

all the fans lights paint work are for show only! I spent 4 days dl all my cds to the 500 gig, put the pictures there because the 200 gig sounded flaky, and the 20 gig IDE drive I had windows on it so I didnt have the room. There were lots of torrent movies on the drive that will take mounts to re-download. the MB asks if I am going to do a raid when I set windows up.

Here is a question. Can I run the 200gig for the operating systems? Im hooked on transferring movies music to my Xbox 360. So I want to do a dual boot xp/mce on the 200, and two 300-500 in a raid for the DATA. I dont care if I lose the op programs etc. easily replaceable. But the other data is the stuff I want to keep safe. some of these movies are HARD to find!!! also- is "new-egg" better that "tiger direct"? I have used TD for many years and never had any issues. but you all seam to link to newegg. thanx for the help guys.

Eric (V1PER) the nerd.
'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.'
As my Tag says, I am an TECHNICAL SCUBA Diver. And a Scientific Pantheist.

 

[scubapantheist]

sorry quick question. I did not see any place to post this.

I want to do a slipstream disk to install xp-pro, all updates, and any of the great programs you all have suggested so I can put it on all 3, now maybe 4 computers. I have the licenses for xp-pro ans office pro. you can move this to where it belongs, or point me to a page. or any help would be great.

Eric (V1PER) the nerd.
'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.'
As my Tag says, I am an TECHNICAL SCUBA Diver. And a Scientific Pantheist.

 

[BadBigBen]

1. it does not matter if it is TD, NE, or eBay, etc., where you purchase a piece of equipment... those links are for reference only...

2. you can run the OS on any drive, be it the 200gig or even a 2TB monster...

3. as to the query on slipstreaming, there is only one application that does what you want easy, and that is nLite...

http://www.nliteos.com/

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"