salary review

[KellyK]

I apologize if this isn't the right place to post this. I wasn't sure where else to put it. I'm a 22 year old beginning programmer and I'm up for my annual salary review tomorrow. This is my first "real" job and I don't know what kind of raise to ask for. My boss wants me to present him with a percentage raise and explain why I deserve it. I've looked on salary.com but it's hard to find a comparable job description to mine in order to see how much people are making in my area. I'm located in Green Bay, Wisconsin. My question to you all is: what is a typical percentage raise/salary for a database developer/business analyst? I do above-average work but nothing outstanding.

Kelly

 

[Gatorajc]

3 to 5% for cost of living increase is a good place to start.

 

[Stiddy]

Hi KellyK, I am around the same age as you. I am a networker, who happens to do mostly programming for my company. Because of this I am like gold to them. I resently asked for a raise do to an increase in family size, and also the fact that people would ask me questions and how to do work whom happen to be on a higher pay grade than me. Of course, you can't mention that kind of knowledge to your boss.

As far as a percentage of income to ask for, it will depend on you. You have to ask yourself, What kind of lifestyle you want to lead? If you want a huge house with a new lexus and only make 25-30,000 a year, it will be difficult and you will probably be living ABOVE YOUR MEANS. Now, if you are between 90-100 then you might be okay. The key is to live BELOW YOUR MEANS and invest for the long road. There is nothing wrong if getting out the pen and pad and really trying to figure out what you need to be happy, facturing in your current bills, and what you plan to purchase. Just remember to always add a fudge factor in, say 10-15%, because you never know what can happen month to month.

In my case, I started out with a lower salary than I probably could have, but it seemed like alot in the beginning because it was and still is my first real job. I figured out what I needed to be happy and support my new family, and live a comfortable way BELOW MY MEANS so that I can retire a wealthy man. I asked for 20%, but remember that I felt that I was starting out low.

Once you figure out what you need to live happy, if that means a 10% then maybe ask for 15%, if that is 25% then ask for 20%, just make sure you give yourself some room for negioation. The worst that can happen is they laugh and say NO, I was thinking 10%. Then you plead your case more. If you don't find that you are satisfied, then just smile, and take what they give you in appreciation. Oh did I metion, since you sound as if you are good at what you do, you don't have to stay there. Remember that you HAVE A JOB RIGHT, so you can start resuming out for maybe a higher salary to see if you can get a bite.

Well, HTH, and sorry if I bored you with my rambling. - Mike

 

[Gatorajc]

sorry had to many windows open and hit the wrong submit button. Anyway finishing my thought in addition to the cost of living add another 8 to 10%. But you know your boss and company, and what they are willing to pay, better than anybody.

 

[garwain]

I'd give pretty much the same advice.
1) figure out how much your cost of living is
2) estimate how much you are likely to spend on luxury items
3) come up with how much you want to invest for your futur (very good idea these days)
4) make a sub total and tack on 5 or 10% misc costs

There you have what you need. If this number looks like no raise needed then let's tack on a bit more to the investment and factor in that new computer or TV that you have been drooling over.

Now that you have the salary that you want, tack on another 5% to propose to give negotiating room without comprimising the ammount you really want.

Now that we have a formula out of the way, ask yourself as well how much you think you are worth. Hopefully these numbers will match. IMPORTANT HERE be honest with youself. don't just say "I believe I deserve $100,000/year."


Another method you could use is to break apart your job to each field that you work in on a daily basis and research the current rates for each of these fields then scratch off all but the highest 2 or 3 tasks you perform. If these numbers agree with your cost of living+misc expenses then you could use these numbers as a basis.

 

[BeckahC]

I think you are both lucky and unlucky to have this opportunity to request a particular % of raise. I go in for my review, fill out some papers, my boss puts in for a particular size increase and then I find out what is approved for me when I get my paycheck a couple of weeks later... They did cut back the raises at my company to 2% max this year... that sucks, but at least they told us ahead of time.

Anyway, depending on how much you're making and what your expense are, give your boss a figure that leaves some room, like said previously, in case they don't give what you ask, you should still be happy, or at least ok with what you do get.

This is a good time to figure out your budget, too (if you don't have one already) Write down all your expenses on a per month basis - rent, car, clothes, electric, food, etc. Then subtract that amount from what you bring home monthly (net, not gross). Figure out how much you have left, then add what you would like to be saving each month for the future. Then you can figure out what you need to survive, what you need to get by, and what you need to be comfy... and therefore, what raise you need. I know if my husband and I had done this last year, we might be in a better position this year.... I'm 25 myself and still at the first company that gave me a "Real job" though I went from clerk to programmer since starting, so I know what you mean about having little to no comparison. I've been here nearly 5 years, and I am still figuring it out.

HTH! (This was just my opinion. If you don't like it, please ignore it.) BeckahC

 

[KellyK]

Thank you so much ajcatano, Stiddy, garwain, and BeckahC for your advice!! It was very helpful and as a result I did a lot of research in areas I may not have considered were it not for the help of you all. The good news is that I was confident enough to present my boss with a 10-15% raise request. The bad news is that he said our company has 4% in the budget. (why he asked me then I do not know!) However, he said he would be willing to take the figures I gathered to the head honchos at my company to try to get me something more in the range I requested. Thanks again!

 

[MasterRacker]

Even during the recession the average IT worker raise has been 6-8%. For the last 10 years IT has generally been averaging 8-12% depending on position. Go to Google and search on "Salary Survey". You will come up with a lot of different ones. Datamasters is a populart one that others like to rep[ost. Also, some are purely driven by headhunter agencies and are inflated. After you look at a few, it becomes pretty easy to pick out the "botique" surveys and focus on the realistic ones.

Once you find those, pick out the positions that resemble yours. Nothing will match 100%. Maybe you need to "blend" couple of positions to match what you do. Blend the piositiobns and blend the pay. You should be able to get a fair figure for what you're worth for your area and length of service and have at least some numbers to back it up.
Jeff
Working in IT is like trying to commit suicide with a very small hammer ....

 

[xutopia]

being humble is a good thing at times. First time I asked for a raise I asked for too much (10%). Go layed off just 5 months after. The company was having trouble financially. Found a job right away and doubled my salary.

A good thing to do is see how the company is doing financially. Ask the accountant if it is a big company it can be helpful. If the company is feeling good and the bosses don't feel too much pressure from investors or clients they will be more willing to give you a good raise.

Write down what you bring to the company. Compare with other people with similar job as yours. Ask them how much they are making.

2% is usually given to many people in big companies as inflation is around that level. Asking 5% means you deserve a 3% raise (wich is substantial).

The fact that you are young also means that you should be careful. Most people ask for more important raises when they are starting a family. If you are not don't try to go too high.

Hope this helps. Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

 

[gwinn7]

There have been some very interesting responses to your question, but I don't think what most of what has been said to be how one should estimate what their raise should be. I think if you spend your time running cost of living formulas and how YOU would like to live is an approach that will probably short change you in the long run.

Personally, I think your employer would be more impressed and more apt to give you a larger raise by describing what is in the best interest of the company. I would layout a justification by answering the following questions for your employer...

1. What role do you play in the company and how important is your role in making money for it?
- Minor updates to software
- Major source of technical resource
- Responsible for missing critical software and data
- Other?

2. What is the market value of a programmer at your level in your geographical region? (Check the web and contracting companies)

3. If other employers are looking at you as a candidate, what would they pay you approximately?

4. Other?

Whatever you do, take the approach from a business perspective. I would avoid factoring in the personal unless your role in the organization truly demands more money.

Just my opinion guys.

Gary
gwinn7
A+, Network+

 

[KellyK]

We live, we learn I guess. The posts dated after my meeting (yesterday morning) put things into perspective for me and made me realize perhaps I asked for too much. My company is doing VERY well financially this year, with 1st Quarter margins exceeding plan significantly. However, truth be told, we were struggling last year. I started in IT and after 5 months got laid off. They saw my potential and reassigned me to the business division. Our business employees make very little salary wise compared to our IT department. I was lucky though, and they kept me at the same salary I was making in IT. I still do programming, but not as intensively as I did in IT. But I requested a raise in line with what one in IT would be. I still won't know the results until the end of next month, but I learned a valuable lesson!

 

[BeckahC]

I wouldn't worry too much Kelly. Probably the worst that can happen is that they don't give you a raise as high as you asked for. If that happens, obviously being gracious and making it clear that you appreciate your boss trying to go the extra mile for a higher increase for you is about all you can do and it will likely help him consider doing so again.

Like you said - live and learn. If anything this might give you a chance to get more than you would've if you'd asked lower. BeckahC

 

[garwain]

I'd tend to agree with BeckahC. If the company is more productive because of you, it puts you in a position where you can ask, and most likely the worst that will happen is you'll be told that it's out of the budjet (or sometimes that you are an idiot), and they will give you what they were planning to anyway. As long as you give a reasonable number you should be fine.

 

[Stiddy]

KellyK, Well glad to here that you got your raise and that you are somewhat Okay for now. But, remember that you don't have to stay if you are unhappy....but also consider that on your resume you don't want to start a history of job hopping to often. Also, you have to consider the company benefits. For instance, the company I work for pays all the medical, dental, vision, etc..for me and my new daughter, but yet I have been offered a position at another company for 8K more. When I balance the two, it is just not worth it for me to go. Anyway, keep you the good work and work even harder, you will benefit in the long run. Congrats

 

[Zantor]

Just a hint for the actual review.

Under no circumstances use the phrase "nothing outstanding".

That is a very good way to assure yourself no raise.

Also, ask for a little more than you want so your boss can knock you down a little and you can still be happy.

 

[shelron]

I don't understand the logic of determining ones salary increase (reward) based upon what ones needs are? That would be a good basis to determine what field or position you should direct your career, but not to value a salary increase.

How about the old fashioned method of determining ones worth to the company paying the salary?

Have you come up with any new ideas that save the company personnel hours, direct costs, or improve effeciency in any way?

Ron

 

[KellyK]

Ron,

I've improved effeciency BIG TIME in my department by automating a lot of tasks that were previously manual processes. Unfortunately, my salary review was last month, so now I'm just waiting to hear the results.

Thanks for the response!
Kelly

 

[garwain]

The reason for determining one's needs is that you can see how much of a pay raise is necessary for your style of living. Of course you need to be able to prove that you are worthy of a raise, but your needs are a good place to start if you don't know how much of a raise to ask for

 

[gwinn7]

garwain,

Computing a raise based on one's needs makes no sense in economics. It does only if you are figuring an allowance from your parents, but its a BUSINESS. Its not there for our benefit because we want that new car. Its there for the customer!

Employees provide the service in exchange for what it is worth. Its through the performance of the company that determines whether how much money it gets. Therefore, the most important people in the company earn the most money.

Acquiring a raise should be based on business reasons and what benefit is it to the company to pay an employee more. The result of a raise rewards the employee for a job well done and an incentive to continue performing well at that company, and no other. If another company offers a greater incentive to produce, then it may be in the best interest of the employee to entertain that offer.

If you think raises should be based on personal lifestyle, you should probably rethink what a busines is all about.

Gary
gwinn7
A+, Network+

 

[garwain]

If you re-read all the messages regarding calculating ones needs, you should be able to tell that the emphesis is on calculating one's cost of living. If a person is working full time, and their pay is not meeting the cost of living then something is seriously wrong, either they deserve a raise or need to re-evaluate their life style. Also, just earning enough to survive is not enough either. I know some people who work 15 hour days and can only manange to pay their rent, utilities and food expenses. When one of them was asked what sort of raise they deserved, they showed the review board that they were putting everything the had into the company, and were still struggling to pay the bills. A year later, that person has enough money that he can make a contributing to his retirement fund, and buy a GOOD widescreen TV that he's wanted for years.

Living in a major city, rent increases constantly, so you need to factor in your cost of living increases.

Economically this makes every bit of sense. If the company isn't paying the person enough to meet the cost of living in the area, the person will start looking elsewhere. If this was for McDonalds, I would agree that the person won't have much choice on places offering better pay, but in the IT field, if the person knows what they are doing, and can market themself, they will probably be able to find a better paying job, doing the same type of work.

I do agree that you can't say:
"I'm currently living in a 3 room apartment, struggling to pay the bills and keep my old rusty scrap heap running... I want a 5 acre lot with a 12 room house and a VW Jetta. Therefore I need a 263% raise"

That is just plain stupid (management will enjoy the free comedy, and laugh at it untill someone else does something stupider, but that could take a while...)

I never said this is the ONLY thing that factors in. I also gave the approach of breaking down every part of your job, and comparing the rates against the industry standard, and figuring out what the your pay should be from that.

It takes more than one tool to build a house, and the same applies for calculating what your raise should be. If you say "Hey I'm automating every task I can, and saving the company $500,000 per year I should get a raise... the employer could be impressed with the ammount, will be more likely to give a higher raise if you can show that AND that your cost of living requires a X% raise.

There is NO WAY AT ALL to be able to give a guideline that will work for everyone. Every employer will have different ideas as to what merits a raise.