Salary Negotiation

[nevets2001uk]

I'm after some advise about how to negotiate a pay rise.

I have been with my company for 5 years. I started on a low salary while completing college and stayed with a deal for MCSE training and a rise at the end of it. I completed that 6 months ago (2 years behind the agreed schedule) and would like to look into a higher salary.

I'm still on what I consider a low figure. There are two of us in the IT Dept. My manager and myself. We look after 110 PC's, 8 Servers and the network and printers etc. My work includes...

Helpdesk Support
Windows Systems Maintenance and Management (PC & Server)
Software Installations and Rollouts
Resposincible for Backups and Restores
SQL Server – Administration and DB Design
Application Development - VB.NET (ASP.NET)
Networking

Since I do all of the above and have an MCSE I would like to ask for more but how should I go about it? Should I talk to the HR Manager or go to my manager? How do I introduce the subject in an acceptable way that doesn't cause friction?

Also we are looking at being outsourced in the near future. As part of that we will be offered a 1 year minimum contract with the provider. Before that happens I'd like to be on a reasonable salary so that if they take over they don't keep me below industry standard.

I've compared MCSE salaries locally using some websites and I fall way below the minimum average.

Any help is appreciated.

Steve G (MCSE / MCSA:Messaging)

 

[Welshbird]

I once did a similar exercise where I researched similar jobs locally and the pay scales.

I then went to my boss (rather than HR, as it is his budget) and showed the standard pay scale for my job and then my salary, and asked him to pay me 50% of the difference more.

I had already looked around for other jobs, and to be honest I didn't think I would achieve too much. If you want to be paid the market rate, you probably have to be prepared to go to the market.

So, at this time, I was paid £20K - generally other similar roles were paid £30K, and I asked for £25K. I got £24K so I left.

(I'm now substantially better off (some factors), but mostly because I have been prepared to move.

IMHO so must you be.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[AndrewTait]

One thing to think about is this:

Did you sign an agreement whereby you agreed to stay with the company for a minimum amount of time after completing your MCSE?

If you did, then there is probably some payback clause in there, whereby if you leave, you have to pay the company for your training.

If this is the case, it is probably not worth leaving until after this period of time has passed, unless your new employer is prepared to buy you out of this clause.

If you decide to stay, until the end of this period, then there is probably not a lot you can do if the company turn around and say no to any request for a higher salary.

=======================================
You may think if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers think that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet!
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[LadySlinger]

How indepth did you look into the salary research? Did you look at businesses that are the same size as your company or produce the same profits? Just curious because if you just do the free search (i.e. salarywizard.com's free tool) you will fall WAY under their minimum and median because they're incorporating all sizes of companies with all kinds of net profits and such.

The next thing to consider is whether this MCSE was earned on your manager's/company's requirements or if you just did this on your own. If your manager said to go get your MCSE by all means NOW is the time to talk to him (and yes, you will talk to him first).

If this is something that you earned on your own I would wait until your next review (6 mo or annual) to negotiate a raise. If the raise isn't sufficient and you talk to your boss at the time, then begin to look elsewhere for a job. Once you have a job offer, if your boss likes you that's when you'll see that extra money

 

[rouge03]

Over a year ago, I used to be getting way below what was market (salary) standard for someone with the same experience and skill sets that I had then. I was kinda worried how I would be able to negotiate a salary level that was close to market standard. That would be almost double of what I was getting then.

There are companies who will really give you what's "fair". In my case, I got the salary I had hoped to get. They did ask how much I was receiving and what my expected salary was. I was even embarassed (although I tried hard not to show it) when I gave them my expected range.

Just go on and try out other companies if you feel your current company would not be able to give you what's "fair" to you.

My two cents ^_^

 

[elmurado]

I'm in a similar situation-work for one of the biggest chains in the world but they try really hard to not pay market rate because all their salary research is years old and dictated from the US. How did anyone who was successful in getting a deserved raise make it possible?
I'm currently on the wrong grading-my responsibilities are far beyond what my job title is and I would like my pay/grading to reflect my true responsibilities.

 

[Spirit]

5 years?

Personally, I wouldn't bother renegotiating unless you've got a golden handcuff agreement (i.e. if you leave within X years of completion you need to pay back X% of the MCSE)

Just leave. Find a new job, it'll have plus points and negatives but all in all you'll be at a bit of an advantage career wise.

Remember tho the company will probably attempt to give you a pay rise of X matching or beating the new offer but ask yourself why are they offering it to me today and not last month or the month before.

What ever you decide...... good luck.

Iain

 

[SQLSister]

I've found through the years the best way to get a significant pay raise is to get a new job title that is in a better pay band. Since you say you have duties beyond your existing title this may be the way to go if you choos enot to seek employment elsewhere.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[chrissie1]

But being a beautiful woman helps too, right sis?

Christiaan Baes
Belgium

"My old site" - Me

 

[SQLSister]

Not noticeably Chrissie. Maybe if I were inclined to accept those kinds of offers...

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[telnettech]

im actually in the process of doing the same thing....i truely dont believe that i will get the salary that i should be making based on market value. But im gonna try and see if there is a way for me to get a pay raise but at the same time, have the company pay for a certain training program i want to take.....the price of the training program, when added to what my pay raise will probably be, will be the same as if they gave me a pay raise to market value.....The way im gonna sell this to my boss is that by sending me to the training program, the company gets to take tax incentives that will help the company with the profit line this year. Also, as im learning, I will be using this knowledge on the job and so they are getting an immediate return on the "investment". Then i can then go for market value next year cause then i will be closer and most likely to get what i want. Plus i get the training paid for by them instead of coming out of my own pocket, which is where it is going to come from if they say no.

Brian

To error is human.....if the machine doesnt work, then KICK IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gemmms]

Salary negotiations can always be awkward, but arming yourself with the facts and taking these to your boss helps.

My situation - I was an trainer in the Manchester office. We were looking to recruit in the London. Interviewing hadn't gone well - my manager mentioned would I be interested in the job. I had been looking to get into the London market and this provided me with a good opportunity. The boss' stumbling block with me, came when she offered me £3k less than they were offering at interview (which I was present for). I laid out how expensive that this would be in the long term (ie getting the person fully trained and accommodating trips to Manchester or to London for the Manchester trainers) versus how much it would cost to satisfy me (also that I already knew all our systems and wouldn't need any additional training). I kinda had them over a barrell that they couldn't argue. I got what I want by laying it down in black and white.

Basically, by reminding them that your replacement would cost market rate anyway and would also take x amount of time to get up to speed on the systems - i am often baffled that proper salary reviews don't take place to retain good staff. You should feel that you can talk to your manager about such things. *mumbles* Budgets etc often come back at you - if they aren't prepared to listen or back you - you can always leave. At the end of the day, you have to take care of yourself and pay your bills.

Another thought. Note down exactly what you do as part of your job, including all the other "can you just..." "would you mind..." favours that you end up with. You're probably doing a hell of a lot more than they're paying you for without credit anyway. Ammunition all the way.

Oh and aim high (sensibly not extortionately) - if they come in with a lower offer at least it shouldn't be lower than the average and might actually meet what you were hoping for.

Good Luck!

 

[aarenot]

Remember, if in the course of negotiations a timetable is set for training, and for how long you must remain after that training. The date for which completion of your obligation is fulfilled is according to the schedule, not when the delayed fulfillment on the companies part is completed, then the waiting period.

For instance, you negotiate, and they agree to schedule your training, and cert on Windows 2003 server during the 2nd QTR of 2003. In reality you get the training in 3rd QTR 2004. If your original date for being able to leave without repaying training costs was 2nd QTR of 2004 baswed on the original training date, their delay in meeting their obligation for 5 QTRS does not delay your right to leave 4 QTRS after the scheduled training date. They do this on purpose sometimes to keep people with antiquated certs so they have no marketable training left before they even take the course.

 

[mikepf]

You definitely need to get out! If the current mgr is interested in your staying, he'll talk satisfaction/money at your reviews. Robert Half is the KING but others are good too.

Never talk actual $$ with a new employer. When the subject comes up, say "You know I'm making $$ now. You look like a reasonable person to work for, I know you'll make me a reasonable offer".

Good luck,
Mike