Running additional Cable TV lines 1

[wjl11]

Hello,
I am getting quotes on running new lines through my house using RG6.
A contractor has suggested running conduit along the downspout from the demarc to the attic so that the upstairs lines can be spilt from there.
Not too sure I want conduit on the outside of the house. Anyone else run into this approach?
Thanks,
Will

 

[Servamatic]

First thought, hire a better contractor.
Since I don't know how your home is built, I can only speak from my experience. There should be a way to get cable into the attic without running on the outside of the house. That is a very unprofessional approach.

Typically when I do residential work I locate my distribution panel so I can run conduits in the wall up into the attic. This makes for a much cleaner and easier to add to installation.

There are lots of specialty tools on the market for retrofitters.
Take a look at:

http://www.lsdinc.com

They also have training videos for retrofitting, as does:

http://www.trainingdept.com

A good retrofitter should be able to wire a house without opening any holes in the sheetrock that would need patching.



Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wjl11]

Thanks for the info! I will keep looking for more contractors. Its difficult just to get a return call.

Will

 

[Bobg1]

Knowing the type structure or number of floors would make it easier to come up with ideas.
If it has stick built interior walls and you are only trying to go up one level you can probably get through an inside wall quite easily. You might also look were a vent or chiminey go through and see if there is a space along side.

 

[EdPorts]

If you're going into an attic, I would indeed suggest having a single RG-6 run in there, and then splitting it to your different locations.

As far as running a conduit on the outside of the house, that doesn't sound right.

If your exterior walls are not capable of being fished to get that RG-6 cable in there, then perhaps wrapping the RG-6 up the wall and then penetrating is an idea, or using some exterior rated wiremold. Those aren't attractive, but better than a piece of conduit.

A lot of times, if it's a masonary type structure... I'll just wrap up the house in a corner or something where it's less visible, and then drill in from there. You can then paint the RG-6 and the clips... and it's pretty much invisible from there. Again, not the best solution.

If I were you, I'd try contacting my local CATV company, and seeing which subcontractors they use. Most CATV companies subcontract their installations to a company to save money, and 99% of the time, those contractors do side work. They know their stuff... and can probably help you out for a good price.

They also know what they're doing in terms of signal loss. Sometimes cabling contractors or electricians aren't very knowledgable when it comes to signal loss, etc. If you're dealing with a lot of outlets, and you're using digital services (ie. digital boxes, or modems) then you're going to want it done with respect to those devices. You'll also want to make sure that your cable drop is up to date. Many cable companies have RG-59 drops looming around that have yet to be changed out. RG-59 does not deal very well with highbandwidth services, the dropoff rate is much higher.

If your drop is underground, you'll want to take a look and make sure that it's filled cable. A lot of times, it is not. If it's been in there a while, it could be getting eaten alive by water and whatnot, and that will wreak havoc on your signal level.

Depending on the length from the tap on the street to your house, you'll also want to make sure you have the right cable. Up to 200', an RG-6 drop is sufficient. In excess of 200', RG-11 is definetely the way to go.

If you're getting low levels at the groundblock (ie. +6 on channel 2, and across the board) then you'll want to purchase a house amplifier. These units can boost your signal in a variety of ways, and can also boost your return signal in the case of digital boxes, or cable modems. Make sure to use terminators on any unused ports of a signal amp, otherwise you'll have signal leakage problems.

All in all, make sure that you're seeing good signal levels before you let your contractor leave.

Modems should be recieving anywhere from -14 to +18 on your digital channel (in most places, Digital 80 is the channel used for that). In a rebuild situation like yours, you want to see a fairly high number, anywhere above 0 would be good. But, the modem will still operate within that range.

Basic CATV should be seeing anywhere from -2 all the way up to +18. I've seen televisions operate fine with lower than -2, however, that is not ideal.

Digital cable boxes usually operate using analog tuning for the first 100 channels, thereafter going to a digital service. You'll want to see a good reading on your digital channel as well as regular CATV channels.

Make sure they use a return signal meter like a trilithic. Return levels should be no more than 60, and no lower than around 40. High return levels usually mean that you've got something fishy going on, like a bad fitting or splitter, or excessively low signal.

I hope this helps! I know it's a lot of information, but it's important to know because CATV is a constantly changing thing, and it's important to keep up with the times.

Remember, most of all, always homerun your CATV drops. Never loop.

 

[wjl11]

Great info.
Thanks, EdPorts.

Unfortunately, I wouldnt trust the cable guys around here to run water correctly, let alone cable.

It is proving difficult to find a good wiring contractor.

Will

 

[AvayaNovice]

Hmmm. The cable company may not be the best, but their subcontractors may be worth looking into. Like I said, they'll do sidework... and they'll do more than the cable company will (fishing, etc).

The best thing is probably an electrician. They end up doing most of the inside wiring for new construction, so they know how to deal with CATV.

Where are you located? Who is your CATV company?

Thanks for the info.

 

[wjl11]

In Westchester County, New York.
Provider is Cablevision.

 

[AvayaNovice]

I'm not too familiar with them. I don't know if that's the same company as the old Continental Cablevision. They were a fairly solid company.

Have you looked into their installation subcontractors?

Some companies that I know of that service your area are:

Pro-Data Communications:

http://www.prodatacom.com/

Future Communications:

http://www.futrcommunications.com/

Integrity Communications:

http://www33.brinkster.com/integritycomm/

Those are all I know of. I don't think they'd be affordable either.

Go with the subcontractor route, they'll give you the best service. If not that... hit up an electrician. Worst case scenario, contact one of those contractors I gave you. They're all commercial outfits, and I doubt they do much residential work... but they can help.

 

[JBeav]

>>The best thing is probably an electrician. They end up doing most of the inside wiring for new construction, so they know how to deal with CATV.<<

I can only speak for my area when I say just because they do it, it doesn't mean they do it right. The same goes for &quot;old phone guys&quot;. You can play golf for twenty years and still be a bad golfer. This site may help the homeowner evaluate contractors.

http://telecom.copper.org/telecom-mailer.html

Telling us more about the structure may help. Is this a ranch, w/ basement or crawlspace, is there attic access, etc. It may not be as difficult as you think.

Jeff

 

[OldPhoneGuy]

The same goes for &quot;old phone guys&quot;.

Now you've gone and hurt my feelings...

 

[JBeav]

That was old phone guys, not Old Phone Guy.

 

[AvayaNovice]

Well...

Doing it right.

I think most reputable electricians know how to fish walls... and know how to prewire something.

As far as putting on fittings, and doing a splitter cascade... perhaps I'd leave that to the local CATV company.

The best bet, is to have an electrician get the prewire done, and let the CATV company trim it out. They'll make sure signal levels are appropriate.

Make sure you use RG-6 or RG-6 quad shield. RG-6 should be plenty though, and not all CATV companies carry fittings for quad shield.

This is more of a construction activity than a wiring activity. I think an electrician would be great for this type of work.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I agree, I have run cable for TV in my home in the past, and had Adelphia come out to install connectors. I don't have the tools for coax connectors and I would prefer a quality job . Adelphia charged 15 or 20 bucks to install the SnS connectors and test the connection. I would say it was worth it to know it was done right.

jeff moss

 

[wjl11]

On that note, is there any way for me to test the quality of the signal and connections?

 

[franklin97355]

Cable testers are available but for your job would be overkill. You could the installer to document the install in writing but that too will cost more.

 

[AvayaNovice]

WJ11,

It would benefit you the most to have the cable company actually put on the fittings and test signal strength.

Just have an electrician put in the boxes, and run the rg-6. Let the cable company do the rest. Electricians usually don't use the best tools for that purpose. Most cable companies these days use Thomas and Betts snap and seal fittings, which are very reliable. An electrician is liable to use older style crimp on fittings, which can be fine... but they're not very well trained or prepared to test their work.

A decent signal meter for CATV would run you in the 2-300 dollar department used.

 

[Servamatic]

Actually, most cable companies use thew Digicon connectors.
AT&T was the first to require tham and most followed suit.
I think Time Warner in Atlanta is the only one still using crimps, everyone else uses compression.
That info may be slightly dated, so please enlighten me if wrong. Things do change rapidly in this business.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[AvayaNovice]

I haven't run into many cable companies using digicon connectors.

Snap-and-seal is pretty much the industry standard, at least in California.

I've worked with Charter, Comcast, along with a few of the smaller outfits -- every single one of them uses the thomas and betts line. The T&B combo crimper/striper is a great tool.

Digicon connectors do great for inside applications; however, when it comes to use outside -- snap and seal are the best I've seen. They usually stand up to the elements much better, and if using a weather boot on the female side of things -- you should be fine.

A lot of electricians use digicon connectors now, as I think they're part of the entire &quot;smart panel&quot; package they're rolling out.

Either way, they're both pretty much the same thing... and you can use a digicon tool to put on a snap and seal connector.

 

[daronwilson]

We use both, anywhere on the outside and in the wall we usually use snap and seal. The local cable companies here use them as well. We do use the conical crimp type of connector in applications where the cable will be handled such as the cable from the wall to the TV, TV to vcr, etc. They make a very nice looking finished product. However, I like the positive termination of the snap and seal.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com