RGB/CMYK Issue

[rob303]

Hi,

After the fantastic help I recieved here last time I've finished the pdf I was working on. However, a small query has arisen. The client wants it to be CMYK as their printing place requires it. I've built it with RGB images (tiffs and one eps) in Photoshop 7. Is this something I just set in the Job Options in PM 7 (there's so many CMYK standards listed there though) or do I need to resave all the images in PS7 as CMYK??

I've tried the Press setting in Distiller (v5.0) but I get the error message "Can Not Send Postscript to Distiller".

Thanks in advance.

Rob

 

[Eggles]

>>do I need to resave all the images in PS7 as CMYK?? <<

Yes - you cannot do it in PM.

>>The client wants it to be CMYK as their printing place requires it.<<

There's nothing unusual here, as the printing presses require that the colours are separated into the four process colours in order to be printed. That's the way it works. Have a read of this:

http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/processcolor/

If you are getting this message when yopu try to distill:

>>I've tried the Press setting in Distiller (v5.0) but I get the error message "Can Not Send Postscript to Distiller"<<

it is probably because Distiller recognises that the RGB images cannot be printed on a commercial Press. Although I must admit I've never heard of it doing this (but then I've never used the Press setting with non-CMYK graphics).

 

[rob303]

Hello again and thanks Eggles, I've saved the images as cmyk but the colours have changed when displayed in Acrobat (and on the screen in PS7 compared to the original), is that just how it is prior to printing as my printer's broke so can't check?? Maybe I'm not getting this but I thought the RGB numbers and the equivalent CMYK numbers produce the same colour (for example in the Color Picker in PS7) but they don't appear to...Thanks

 

[rob303]

Me again, I'm panicing a bit here the design has been accepted by the client as it was, but they want it cmyk, and they need it asap...but one of the colours in that color picker wont convert to cmyk, it says "out of gamut" and now comes through as a dull blue as opposed to the vibrant blue it was in rgb...please help

 

[BionicJohn]

Hi, Rob,

"Out of Gamut"

I think this link should open the correct page in your PS7 helpfile -

http://www.work-at-home-profits.com/tutorial/photoshop/Help/1_8_5_0.html

Have a look at this thread in AdobeForums PhS Win called Colour Management -

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@@.3bb3c725/0

Seek out Len Hewitt or Harron Appleman if you want any advice. They're top men.

Iechyd da! John
Glannau Mersi, Lloegr.

 

[rob303]

Hello John,

Thanks I've had a read of all this and a lot more besides and my head's burnt out. I'm hoping the printer will accept lab color now as the colors changed little in that and it can be printed on postscript lvl 2/3 printers, assuming they use this kind of gear. It's very frustrating as it was really only the blue colour block I used in the design that has changed and has no CMYK equivalent.

The "Cannot send postscript to distiller" error still happens even with the images converted to cmyk so I guess one eps I put on is still in rgb but that was another nightmare getting that to work without it displaying with a white box around it in acrobat.

Any further suggestions welcomed

PS I happened to be reading another thread the other day in which you mentioned you're from Merseyside, I am as well but now living in Helsinki, how's life there? been a while since I've been home...

 

[Eggles]

Rob

One of the things you will learn about CMYK printing is that it is simply not capable of producing strong vibrant colours like you can see on a computer monitor. It is because the monitor' s colours are produced by **light** - whereas colour printing is done by adding layers of **ink** to a sheet of paper. Totally differnt process and our eye can perceive the differences.

So you will have to learn to live with the idea that CMYK printing will NEVER be as bright or strong or vibrant a colour as it looks on the computer screen.

Another issue is that of colur 'gamut' - a word that describes the range of colours of different colour systems. The natural world has a very wide colour gamut, which our eyes of capable of perceiving and interpreting. The computer monitor generates colours based on combinations of red, green and blue light, but has a more limited range than the natural world. There are just some colours in nature that cannot be reproduced on a monitor (esp in the green region). Then you have CMYK printing, which has an even smaller gamut than a computer monitor - hence there are some screen colours that simply have no equivalent in the CMYK world. These are Photoshop's 'out of gamut' colours.

>>Maybe I'm not getting this but I thought the RGB numbers and the equivalent CMYK numbers produce the same colour (for example in the Color Picker in PS7) but they don't appear to...<<

When you convert an image from RGB to CMYK in PS, even if you have been careful about always working with the CMYK gamut, the image will become duller - and will print that way - simply because there is no exactness to this translation - it simply isn't possible to accurately convert an RGB colour into CMYK.

One other thing to keep in mind - images on screen in Photoshop always look better than in any other program because it is an image-based program (unlike Acrobat or Pagemaker etc). They may even print better, but it is not always convenient to do so, since PS doesn't do some other things very well (such as layout).

Rather interesting articles here:

http://dx.sheridan.com/advisor/cmyk_color.html

http://www.printingforless.com/rgb-cmyk.html

http://www.bipl.ahc.umn.edu/rgbtocmyk.html

 

[BionicJohn]

Hi, Rob,

> > my head's burnt out.

Yes, it's not easy to understand the finer points of viewing CMYK ink based images on RGB monitors. Lyn pointed you to some good pages and explained well. Nice one, Lyn!

> > you're from Merseyside

I live there - "Glannau Mersi". My dad married a foreign women and eventually we emigrated from Wales to England.

> > how's life there?

Life's generally on the up. The Open Golf will be at Hoylake (just up the road) in July 2006 so I'll clear off for that week! (Any want to rent a 2 bedroom apartment for the duration? Rates negotiable but houses across the road from the golf course are going for £5,000 for 10 days!)

I took a walk around the course -

http://www.hilbreview.mersinet.co.uk/royallivgc/index.htm

- for a few crap snaps.

> > been a while since I've been home...

Scousers here, Scousers there; Scousers every effingwhere!

I was wearing my Carlsbergin Japan a few years ago. I was in Shinjuku station and heard at least one "Orrite mate?" while going for my train.

Must go - The European Cup Final kicks off in about half an hour. It's from the AufSchalke Arena, Gelsenkirchen (Schalke04's home stadium) which is one of the best in the world and is to be used in the 2006 World Cup.

[/rabbit]

Iechyd da! John
Glannau Mersi, Lloegr.

 

[rob303]

Thanks guys, you have both been so helpful, in the end because of urgency the printer took all the files and they will sort it out. I am sure I will be on here again for more of your brilliant advice. Actually will I think on do you have any good suggestions for books on PS, PM, Illustrator etc....

John, Im not a born and bred scouser, Im whats known as a woolyback originally from wallasey, I know hoylake very well, spent much of my misplaced childhood there...

The Reds will be in that final next year, I can feel, au revoir gerard...bring Jose or benitez...would have deco, alberto, aimar playing alongside the great stevie g any day of the week

 

[BionicJohn]

Hi, Rob,

> > any good suggestions for books on PS, PM, Illustrator etc....

PM's coming to the end of its days, so you'd be better off for DTP work looking at InDesign.

Olav Kvern's books are always good.

http://www.creativepro.com/author/home/227.html

And then there's Adobe Press:

http://beta.peachpit.com/books/adobepress.html

> > a woolyback originally from wallasey

He he he! I work for the council, based in Wallasey. Know it well. Was in the Town Hall only a couple of days ago, and was on the Prom at New Brighton by West Cheshire Sailing Club on the way home.

> > know hoylake very well

Small world eh? I lived in Grosvenor Road for 10 years, behind Barri Biswas's Hoylake Tandoori restaurant. And then there's the Plazzy's, The Lake, The Ship, The Anchor, The Punch and The Green Lodge. The Co-op is now Weatherspoon's, and there's lots of restaurants, some very good, some just naff burger/pizza/kebab bars. And the Norwegian Wood Sauna's been done again for naughty services.

You'll know the old swimming baths was demolished years ago: the new Lifeboat House is going to be built there soon, all the planning's been approved and most of the cash is in the RNLI's bank. I've seenthe drawing and it looks good. There's going to be space for the development of a rescue hovercraft too.

> > The Reds will be in that final next year

That's the good news, the bad news is final is to be held in Istanbul.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/calendar2004.html

Stevie G is magic, and voted LFC's plyer of the year, obviously.

I don't know who's going to get the manager's job - either Morinho or O'Neill would keep me happy.

PS: are you a member of TTUK where all this off thread discussion should really take place? forum1091

Iechyd da! John
Glannau Mersi, Lloegr.