Reviving An Old Computer

[SonofAdam]

I have a five year old Sony VAIO computer which has given me good service with W95. About a month ago, it failed to boot up. Attempts to use Scandisk to see what is wrong also fail; it gets so far and then says that Scandisk has encountered a 'fatal error', and that 'the destination disk is full'. During the Scandisk, it finds numerous files or directories that are damaged; I usually click on the 'Fix It' option. When I run Scandisk and receive an error message, I have only two choices, to 'Fix It' or 'Don't fix it'. If I choose 'Don't fix it', the screen goes blank, says Scandisk found an error,
and then brings up a screen that says 'Data error reading drive C''Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail' . Abort or Fail shuts down the computer. Retry or Ignore simply repeats the same message. So, I can't get far enough to clear my hard drive of any files, and there seems to be no way to delete
corrupted files. Also, on boot up, a message tells me that "the system configuration manager failed to run". I also tried booting up with the Sony Emergency Recovery CD; that goes on for a while, then gives me an error that says it cannot continue and to run Scandisk! I realize I could probably buy a whole new cheapie system for the cost of replacing the hard drive in a five year old system, but I am taking it as a kind of technical challenge. Anyone have thoughts on how I might get this old thing to run, or maybe where one could buy a cheap hard disc for an old computer? Btw, I do have a new system on which I am writing this message, but there is some data on the old one that I could use. Advice appreciated, Thanks,
John

 

[SonofAdam]

Thanks still, folks.
delder suggests I change the cable to primary for your hard drive -- I am virtually certain that I have connected the ribbon cable to the new hard drive as it was attached to the old h.d. Also, I have connected to the h.d. with the very end of the ribbon cable, as per the diagram on the Maxtor/Quantum web page.

delder also suggests I be sure no antivirus program is on the BIOS; I had never used any kind of a.v. program with this computer.

CitrixEngineer comments: "Because you are booting from the Sony system floppy, this would explain why you get an a:\ prompt and not a c:\ prompt" -- I am not booting from a floppy; there is no floppy disc in the floppy drive at any time. I have tried booting from the Sony Recovery CD, but nothing from the floppy.

chaosinc offers: "try wiping and reformatting the drive.if you're still getting the errors then it's time for a new h.d." -- I may indeed need to wipe the h.d. clean; however, this *is* the new h.d. [actually a refurbished one I bought on Ebay]. The Ebay advert noted that DOS had been installed on the h.d.

TedM: "some older drives don't always communicate with the BIOS to pass the Mfr name. Do you remember if your old drive did? " -- My recollection is that the old drive was shown by name on the BIOS Setup Screen. Also, the BIOS does recognize the CDROM by name, HITACHI IDE, followed by a number.

TedM: "...if the BIOS is properly recognizing the manually entered drive parameters that should work OK. To check it try typing c: at the A:\ prompt and see if the system can address the disk" -- When I type C: at the A:\ prompt, the message 'Invalid Drive Specification' appears.

TedM: "Do a DIR and see if the number of mb's returned for the drive is fairly close to the known size of the drive" -- DIR from the A:\ prompt gives a list of files. Size shows as 728,163 bytes, and 404,480 free, for a total of 1.13 GB; this is far less than the nominal h.d. capacity of 3.8 GB. Not sure what this means.

TedM asked about the PCV120 batch file; here it is:
Type pcv120.bat
g:\tools\fdisk 1 /pri:8000
@echo Your drive has been partitioned.
@echo With the Recovery CD in your drive, restart (Ctrl-Alt-Del)
@echo your system and select 'Format and Recover Hard Drive.'
Note -- when I type in pcv120 at the A:\ prompt, I still get:
Run-time error R6003
- integer divide by 0
Your drive has been partitioned.
With the Recovery CD.........and Recover Hard Drive'

I will work some more on this tomorrow, but wanted to get youall some answers to your question. And I have a new one: if I have to FDISK and FORMAT the hard drive, where can I get a fresh copy of Windows 95 to install?

Thanks, again.
John Hanley
jphanley@ix.netcom.com

 

[garebo]

You mentioned above that ou hadnt fdisked and reformatted at all but that is exactly what you should do with your newer hard drive, the one you just bought.
Use your startup floppy and fdisk and format the newer drive. Then you should be able to use the recovery cd.
Someone mentioned antivirus. Maybe they meant you should go to your bios and look for it and turn it off. Some bios have a built-in antivirus prog, so look in your bios and turn it off if it is on. Maybe even vice-versa if it is off. If you have a virus maybe the bios will find it. But probably the antivirus is on, so turn it off.
You could also fix the mbr as well.
Dont give up, you can do this, specially with all the people here helping you. I have been thru this stuff and finally won!!!
You can even try setting your bios to "default settings". The advice you have on putting the hard drive info in as "user" is real good advice. If auto doesnt do it then go to manual.
What was the size of your original hard drive as opposed to the new one you got?
Many people above mentioned that you can put your original hard drive on your other computer as a slave and get the data you wanted to keep, then fdisk and reformat that drive as well. Now you have 2 drives to work with. I dont believe your first hard drive is toast. I believe there is some other, probably a "proprietary" problem or issue that is causing the problems. Have you checked the Sony website for info on this and how to use the recovery cd and also look for Q & A on the recovery cd.

Good luck

Don

 

[CitrixEngineer]

My bad - I didn't read the initial post carefully enough, and am not familiar with Sony laptops, although I have worked with a huge range of compter hardware over the years.

That batch file is trying to run fdisk from a drive called g: - if you type dir g: at the DOS prompt, what happens? If you get a directory listing, is there a directory called tools?

I'm suspecting that it's looking for a partition on which it's expecting to find tools, which was on the old disk. However, it could be a RAM drive.

It's odd that it designates your CD-Rom as A: - does the system boot from a floppy at all? This could be a setting in the BIOS.

Does the recovery CD-Rom have anything useful like fdisk.exe or format.com on it? Does it have a Win95 directory - as a recovery CD, it should have some tools that aren't dependent on finding a system partition.

Hope some of this is helpful CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk

 

[ceh4702]

The Boot order does not install the hard drive.

There is another setting in the BIOS for that! If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[SonofAdam]

Hi --
garebo suggests: "Use your startup floppy and fdisk and format the newer drive. Then you should be able to use the recovery cd." -- I do not have a startup floppy. There is no floppy involved. I only have the Recovery CD.

garebo suggests: "Some bios have a built-in antivirus prog, so look in your bios and turn it off if it is on." --the computer in question is 6 years old, and I never encountered an antivirus program, nor is there any mention of it on the BIOS Setup page.

garebo asks: "What was the size of your original hard drive as opposed to the new one?" -- they are exactly the same size and type [Quantum Fireball TM 3.5, with 3.8 GB].

CitrixEngineer comments: "am not familiar with Sony laptops" -- this machine is a desktop, not a laptop.

CitrixEngeer asks: "if you type dir g: at the DOS prompt, what happens? If you get a directory listing, is there a directory called tools?" -- typing g: at the A:\ DOS prompt displays G:\ -- I can get a DIR listing. The listing is for the CD Recovery Disc, which is drive G: -
There is a tools directory within G: -- typing DIR TOOLS displays the contents of the TOOLS directory, which includes FDISK, FORMAT, SCANDISK, and several others. -- I do not see a W95 directory, but there is one called OSBOOT.IMG and the biggest one is SONY.PAK

I have to run just now, and will work some more on this later today. Thanks for help!
John Hanley

 

[TedM]

SonofAdam (Do you know the Son of Man?)

Here is a link to the Sony website for your PCV 120 Desktop PC that describes the System Restore process. Make sure you pick Section II,"Full Format and Recovery". Follow the directions faithfully and you should be in business!

http://ciscweb.sel.sony.com/scripts/web_access.cgi?FUNC=ENTRY&START_PAGE=DISP_HOMEPAGE

This gets you to the Sony Support web page.

From there, click on "Type a Question"

At the "Type Your Question" page select "PC - VAIO® Desktop Computers"

On the next screen pick the following from the drop downs;
1. "PCV 70-240 Towers"
2. "PCV-100/120
In box 3 type "Restore" and click "Find Solution" on step 4.

On the next screen click on the first option which should be: "(Score: 5) How To Restore The System To The Original Configuration By Performing A Full System Recovery (With Or Without Format)".

On the "Solution Details" page pick Section II, "Full Format & Recovery". Follow the directions carefully. Note that you will NOT be booting from a floppy, but will be booting the machine directly from the CDROM. Make sure no floppy is in the drive when you follow this procedure.

This should restore your computer...

And again, Good Luck!

 

[aker]

i started reading this thread but didn't quite get to the end so maybe it's too late for this advice. concerning your original disk, there is a small program called "Lost&Found" which saved my bacon once when there was a problem with one of the machines which hadn't been backed up for a couple of months and for some devilish reason, the drive wouldn't even respond to a DIR command. unfortunately i don't have it but somebody out there must. i believe it is extinct now but was made by the same guys who make partition magic. if anybody has it please stick it on a warez and leave the URL.

 

[garebo]

you mentioned that you dont have a startup disk but you can make one from another computer. For instance you can make a startup disk for win 95 from a computer running win98. There are a ton of websites around that you can download a startup disk from. Just do a search on google or your favorite search engine. I believe that you can use the win me startup disk as well so if you know someone with either win98 or win me you can make a startup disk on that machine that will likely work in yours.
The reason I mentioned a startup disk is that with the startup you can get to dos on your hard drive. There you can do a format and fdisk of either of your hard drives and then perhaps your recovery cd will work. You can also save some of your files from your original hard drive.
The reason I asked about the size of the hard drives was because I believe you mentioned that your bios wouldnt recognize your new hard drive so I thought that maybe it was too big, but probably not since they are near the same size and you are over the 2.1 gig level and under the 8.6 gig level so the size of the drive is likely not an issue.

As for the antivirus, I have about 6 computers here and I know that at least one of them mentions the antivirus right in the bios. It might be ami bios but I am not sure at this moment. But i know I have seen that and right in the bios. Perhaps you didnt notice or your bios doesnt have it.

 

[SonofAdam]

For TedM -- Thanks for digging out the Sony support info and directions to it. I have gotten to the points mentioned below:

2. Proceed with the full format and recovery.

A. Insert the Recovery CD into the CDROM drive.

B. Click Start, and click Shut Down.

**This direction [B.] assumes that I am starting from Windows to do this procedure. Actually I am starting from a powered down machine, or from an A:\> prompt. Not sure if that would make any difference.**

C. In the "Shut Down Windows" box, click to select Restart the computer then click Yes.

** Same as above. **

D. At the "Welcome" screen, click OK.

** Ok, here is the sticking point -- when I start the computer from a cold start, I do not get a "Welcome" screen, but get a VAIO screen with the message: "An error was encountered while attempting to access the first fixed disk. Please run your system setup utility and verify that the first fixed disc is properly configured." Clicking "OK" on this screen gives me the A:\> prompt. I am sort of back where I started.**

E. Double-click the Complete Restore icon.

** Given the results of D. above, I never get to this point.**

When I get some time, I will explore the use of the FDISK utility as several have suggested. To make a start on that, I typed FDISK at the A:\> prompt, and got the message: "Error reading fixed disc". Well, at least I am further along, I think, than I was!
John Hanley
jphanley@ix.netcom.com

 

[SonofAdam]

P.S. To TedM -- Yes, I [SonofAdam] am well acquainted with the Son of Man!. I borrowed the name SonofAdam from a series of books called the Narnia Chronicles, by C.S. Lewis. The four children from our world who find themselves in Narnia are addressed as Son of Adam for the boys, and Daughter of Eve for the girls. Good books, ostensibly written for children, but secretly aimed at adults as well.

John Hanley

N.B. to others: I know this is a non-technical post, and won't abuse the privilege.

 

[garebo]

When I get some time, I will explore the use of the FDISK utility as several have suggested. To make a start on that, I typed FDISK at the A:\> prompt, and got the message: "Error reading fixed disc". Well, at least I am further along, I think, than I was!
John Hanley

John, to use FDISK you have to make or have a startup disk as I mentioned above. I only say that because of what you wrote above. You entered FDISK at the A:\ prompt. That alone may not do it since I dont know what is on the cd that you have. Perhaps you can go to c: or even d:, wherever you have the cd at, then perhaps try fdisk. But it FDISK is not on the cd you may have to make a startup disk and use the startup to get to A:, then type in FDISK and the prog will start up.

Then you go to #4, it says something like "check existing partition info". That would tell you things about your hard drive, like the size, fat or ntfs, things like that, also whether it is partitioned or not.
Not trying to push you to get or use a setup disk, i'm just telling you what a startup disk and fdisk can do for you.
I'm lost with the Sony stuff. Unless you have or have had this type of computer, of course you dont know anything about it.
Also suggest you send Sony an email showing them the errors and such that you have written here.

Best of luck

 

[TedM]

Cool! I like C.S. Lewis, too!

OK, again, I am not intimately familiar with Sonys, but what I gather from their Restore procedure is that if your BIOS is configured to Boot from the CDROM, you should be able to boot to your restore CD and start the restore process. I am assuming that this is working. If you are not booting from a floppy then it probably is.

You will probably need to FDISK and Format that drive before the Restore CD can do anything with it. If you don't know how to do that you can look again at the Sony website and check out Section I on the "Solution Details" page I sent you to. Put a WIN95 Boot Disk in a: drive and start on step E from the Section I page. After this is complete you should be able to go back to the Section II procedure mentioned above. Good Luck!

 

[gargouille]

Just as an aside to garebo...the BIOS virus detection doesn't wanta' be turned on...it prevents writing the good stuff there...
This is part of the warning issued (you know the 1 we all ignore/go to sleep during) about turning off virus detection...
Some proggies will even wisely tell you to turn it off or they won't install atall!
Rather than reboot to the BIOS...turn it off...reboot Windoze...do the install...I turn it off and use fulltime virus protection...knock on wood...still haven't gotten anything.
(AVG for free)

 

[garebo]

aside to gargouille
I wasnt telling him to turn virus protection on as you seem to be suggesting. I was telling him to look and see if his bios includes a virus protection section and if it is turned on then to turn it off, not on!!!!!!! I never said to turn it on or leave it on. I suggested that if it was there and it was on that being on could be part of his problem and he should turn it off.

 

[SonofAdam]

TedM was kind enough to email me a W95 Bootdisk File to create an A:\ drive boot disc, on my good computer, for the old Sony. Here is how I proceeded. I followed the instructions below, but have gotten stuck again, at the place where noted:

"I know you don't know me, so be cautious here. Once you detach this file, go ahead and run an AntiVirus scan on it to be sure... TedM"

Ok, this was fine.

"You will need to run this executable and it will create a disk image of the Windows 95 Boot Diskette on a floppy in A:\ drive."

Ok this worked fine.

"After creating the boot disk, boot the (old Sony) machine with it (remove any CDROMs) and select option 5 which is to boot without CDROM support."

Ok, this worked fine.

"At the A:\ prompt type FDISK."

When I typed FDISK, I got the error message:

'No fixed disks present'

I checked my BIOS setup again, and it shows:

Primary IDE Master [Installed]
Primary IDE Slave [Not Installed]
Secondary IDE Master [HITACHI CDR-8130]
Secondary IDE Slave [Not Installed]

Seems odd, the BIOS seems to think there is something there in the Primary IDE master, but is not recognizing it with DOS. If I type C: at the A:\ prompt, message is: "Invalid Drive Specification".

I think I will do as one person suggested, that I put my questions to the Sony support site.

John Hanley
jphanley@ix.netcom.com

 

[TedM]

You really should be able to set your BIOS to AUTO and it should pick up the drive's parameters. You might try that again. I am not one that will quickly say "the drive is bad" because I have resurrected many that have been deemed bad by other Techs. However, that may be a possibility here. Have you installed the drive in another machine as a slave to verify that it is addressable? Of course you would have to set the jumpers back to slave to do this, but it would at least verify that the drive is not toast. If you can read/write to it OK, I would set the BIOS back to AUTO on the primary and try the FDISK again.

There's also a remote possibility that you have a bad imbedded IDE controller on the motherboard (again, unlikely). And, it's possible that your IDE ribbon cable could be bad or have bent pins in the connectors, not be securely seated on both ends or not be properly oriented. Make sure the side of the cable that is striped is on the "pin 1" side of both connectors. On the drive, pin 1 is usually adjacent to the power connector for the drive. On the IDE socket on the motherboard, it should be marked or you can cheat and make sure it is oriented the same way as the secondary cable which is known good since it correctly reports the CDROM on boot up. In fact, you should probably check all the connectors before you do anything else!

Good Luck with Sony. Most support sites are not real responsive on older machines, but you might get some help there if you try. I believe that the biggest problem here is that you have no frame of reference on this stuff. When you've done it a couple of times you'll know to look for stuff that comes second nature to some of us old timers.

Don't get discouraged and Good Luck!

 

[garebo]

question:

What brand of bios is on your Sony machine that is giving you all this trouble.
Is it AMI, AWARD, or PHOENIX ?

 

[SonofAdam]

Hello again. I am still seeking a solution to the problem discussed in this thread. I have done some things recently and have rewritten the statement of the problem based on more recent trials.

I have two computers, one of which is a five year old Sony VAIO
PCV-120, built for Windows 95. I am trying to revive it to be used by my
grandchildren when they come to visit. Sometime back, the original hard
drive became corrupted. I purchased a refurbished hard drive through Ebay [I
shall refer to this as the new hard drive]. My basic problem is that the
BIOS does not properly recognize the new hard drive, nor will the system
allow a boot up from a floppy boot disk, nor can I run FDISK, etc. on this
new drive. It is, of course, possible that the new hard drive is itself
faulty. Here are some facts, in case anyone would like to suggest a course
of action.

1. The original and new hard drives are branded as Quantum Fireball TM 3.5
Series, 3.8 GB. The two drives appear identical on visual inspection. Both
drives have a hardware jumper at the DS position -- this is the position to
use it as a Master drive. There is only one hard drive in the system. The
Quantum line is now marketed by Maxtor.

2. With the *old* hard drive positioned in the case, the BIOS recognizes it
and labels it as Primary IDE Master [QUANTUM FIREBALL]. With the *new* drive
positioned in the case, the BIOS shows Primary IDE Master [INSTALLED], and
does not report the manufacturer. I am using the same ribbon cable and power
plug in both cases. So, I am concluding that my cables and BIOS are ok.

2a. When I boot up with the ribbon cable disconnected from the drive, the
BIOS shows Primary IDE Master [NOT INSTALLED], which I think would be
correct.

2b. The ribbon cable is connected to the drive with the end connector on the
cable. There is a middle connector, but not plugged in anywhere.

2c. IDE Device Configuration is set to "Auto Configured". However, the data
for the new drive are all zeros: Cylinders, Heads, Sectors, Maximum Capacity
are all zeros. With the old drive, BIOS sees the proper data for the Quantum
drive.

3. I have replaced the CMOS battery, if that is important.

4. When I exit BIOS, I get the A:\> prompt. Typing C: there gives the
message "Invalid Drive Specification".

4a. If I try to run FDISK from the A:\> prompt, I get the message
"No fixed disks present". By the way, I am booting from a Windows 95 floppy
boot disk, and mostly using the option of booting without CDROM support.

5. The new drive (and the old) is spinning; I can feel the slight vibration.

6. I am not intending nor desiring to retrieve data from the old hard drive;
just want to get basic Windows 95 running on a new hard drive.

7. I have a Sony Windows 95 Recovery CD. If I try to boot from it, I
basically get back to an A:\> prompt.

That is the gist of where my little project stands. I would enjoy anyone's thoughts.

One more thing: garebo asked about my BIOS: My BIOS is 1.00.8.DD04 -- AMIBIOS American Megatrends, circa 1992-1996.

Thanks again.
John Hanley
jphanley@ix.netcom.com

 

[TedM]

Hi, again!

Told you I would look for a Low Level Format utility. In fact, I think you already have it, as I think I recall e-mailing this link to you before. The utility is called POWERMAX. It includes diagnostics and a LLF utility, as well. Here is the description from the Maxtor/Quantum site:

"POWERMAX is a comprehensive and easy to use diagnostic utility that contains an optional routine (Write Disk Pack) that can be used to erase all the information stored on your hard drive. POWERMAX version 3.0 (or newer) supports all Maxtor Desktop ATA drives and Quantum® ATA drives. The Write Disk Pack option overwrites all data including partitions, folders, directories, files, and file tables, dynamic drive overlays and boot record information."

Here is the link to download:

http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm

It's been a while since I put my feeble brain to this problem, but here's what it's telling me now (might be totally different tomorrow!).

Both drives are hosed. My suspicion is that the "new" drive has been low level formatted with a WRONG utlity for that drive since it even wiped the drive signature from the ROM on the drive. That's why it doesn't recognize it properly in the BIOS as a Quantum Fireball. The old drive MAY just have some bad sectors that are not currently mapped in the drive table. If that's the only problem, you can use the POWERMAX utility "Write Disk Pack" to do a low level format on it and it may become usable again. Hey, at this point you have nothing to lose, right? Try WDP on BOTH drives and see if one becomes usable.

After running the WDP utility you will have to FDSIK and FORMAT. You already have the instructions for that. If this works you're on your way. If it doesn't, you would be much better off purchasing a new drive and going from there. Any kind of ATA (IDE) drive should work fine.

Good Luck!

 

[garebo]

I can say that I have dealt with probably 100 different hard drives over the years and have yet to run into a "dead" hard drive. Not to say it doesnt happen, I've just been lucky. I do know of one that is on the way out, you can tell by the noise it makes when booting after sitting a few weeks.
I say all this becuz I am certain one or both of your hard drives can be repaired. I have had the same things you are describing happen to me and eventually got the drive going. It was because I am not the best at doing this, but then only a small handful of people are that good!!
I have a question for you. You mention above that you tried to fdisk. Did you first boot via the startup disk, get to the a drive, and then run fdisk? Sounds like a dumb question but again, we sometimes run into problems only because we didnt follow all the steps.
Also, you really need to start with the bios. Since you have the same size and same make of hard drive, if the first drive worked then its not a hard drive "size" issue for the bios.
In some or all of the bios's out there, there are 2 places where you can manipulate the bios to accept the hard drive.
If you go to the maxtor website you can find your hard drive there. You will also find parameters that you can set in the bios if the bios will not do it on its own. Once you have a set of one or even more of the parameters that this drive will accept, then go to the bios and change the hard drive part to "user" or "manual" and just put in the parameters there. You can also, as the person above suggested, get the utility program from maxtor and let that program fdisk and format the drive. Then the bios should see the drive.
Also, in some of the bios's, there is a second place where you can have the bios test or check the drive. I forget the name of it but if you go into the bios and use the left and right arrows and the enter and esc keys, you can go to each one and find the place. This place will test or check the drive for you and sometimes gives you choices of parameters.

Something here may help you out, I sure hope so. Don't give up, you will get at least one of these drives, if not both going!! It's just tricky.












In the bios where you mention you see all the zeros