Requesting some thoughts on Devry

[rocketkidd777]

I have been going to a Devry campus in Philadelphia for 1 semester now studying networking. I've taken 5 classes so far. I love the computer field. I've always had a fascination for technology. I'm pretty sure that its what I want to do for a living.

I'm VERY undecided about staying. Devry is very expensive. Including financial aid and scholarships my tuition, books, and rent through the school has cost me $6,000 for 1 semester. There are 3 semesters in one year. My NCM (Networking Communications and Management) bachelors degree will take 3 years. That's a total of nine semesters costing me $54,000. I must also keep in mind other expenses including gas, food etc. Also, tuition will be increasing every year. I've worked a part-time job here for the semester making about $2,500. It ends in a few weeks, however. Basically I am freaked out about $50,000+ in debt.

I have read A LOT of rebuttal online about Devry. Anything from criticizing the price (due to it being a for-profit company) to the terrible teachers. My one professor even told me that Devry has a terrible reputation; not respected in its field, or by the general public. THIS freaked me out. However in MY experience with Devry I have felt that that my teachers are actually pretty good. They stay after class to talk with me and for the most part know what they are talking about. Financial aid and the people at Devry's corporate office aren't to swift, though.

My indecision to stay has stressed me about majorly. Its interfering with my studying and focus in class. I'm considering going to a state school here in PA to save money and have a real social life. My Devry campus is mainly composed of nerdy gamers. period. This fact bothers me more than you can imagine. I'm trying to develop a social life outside of the school, and slow progress is showing.

I must have my decision about staying or transferring to another school made in only 2 weeks. Ive been going back and forth for several weeks now. Ive talked to people in the field, and with other schools about transferring my credits.

I apologize for the long post.

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!

P.S. I'm a passionate, hardworking 19 year-old guy who can live on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches if that's the only way to afford an education.

 

[jmarquart]

I graduated from DeVry in February of 1995 Cum Laude with a Bachelor of Science in Telecommunications Management. When I started college in 1993 at the time you couldn't find any (affordable) colleges with BS degrees in computer networking and systems administration. All that was available at the majority of universities during this time was the vanilla computer information systems degree (programming only).

I had a fairly positive experience at DeVry, but do agree with you that it is expensive and if I had the chance to go to a less expensive university that had an equivalent program I would have done so. Guess what - you are going to get bad teachers/professors at any university/training you go to!

Most employers are not that interested in what university you receive your BS degree from unless you receive it from a very top level university (MIT, Princeton) or from a very bottom level university (most of the online degree universities).

Given your current circumstances I would recommend you transfer to a college that is more affordable with an equivalent program in computer networking. Employers primarily want to see that you show interest in the field and have a BS degree.

It's harder to get your foot in the door at any company/organization today. I'd strongly recommend you pursue possibly a Microsoft certification track (MCSA, MCSE) and/or the Cisco CCNA certification. As you are just starting out and don't have a lot of work experience this will look very good on your resume.

You are always going to have feedback from the haters that your MCSE/MCSA certifications, CCNA/CCNP certifications, BS degree, etc. are worthless. Ignore the haters as they lurk on many message boards and usually talk the talk but can never walk the walk (you will encounter them if you work in this field).

Even better setup some simulated computer labs with Windows/Linux server on your own time, work with Cisco routers and switches, program an application from scratch (you will be doing scripting as a computer networking professional if you want to differentiate yourself from the PC technicians).

I've done almost all of the following that I mentioned above and it has helped me get the jobs in this field that I want. Make your employer want to say WOW when they interview you.

If you want a social life you should go into marketing as a career ;-).

 

[NickFerrar]

On the MCSE etc. thing - whilst I value mine I'd say without experience they are of very little value. Maybe it would make the difference when choosing between two people with no experience for a junior role but I'd say you're better off doing voluntary work or work experience to gain some experience rather than spending a load of money on an MCSE at this stage.

 

[kmcferrin]

Experience always trumps certification. Experience + certification can sometimes trump experience alone. Sometimes.

Regarding your situation, at least DeVry has a 4-year/Bachelors program. There are other similar technical schools that only offer 2-year/Associates programs which are every bit as expensive. My little brother started going to one that was costing almost $21,000/year.

Generally speaking, I wouldn't shell out top dollar for an IT degree if you're getting into the networking/sysadmin field. In the networking/sysadmin field your degree is only going to be used to get your foot in the door. Within 4 years on the job you will have learned far more than you ever did in school. Now if you want to be a developer then it might be worth it, but the technology used in the infrastructure space changes so fast that most schools can't keep the curriculum current. They try to make up for it by getting instructors who "work in IT in the real world", but they still have their official curriculum to stick to.

If you have a local community college, look into their programs and see if they have something comparable to the DeVry program. My brother found that our local community college had almost the same program as his technical school at around 25% of the cost. The kicker is that many of the instructors teach at both schools!

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[RiverGuy]

One of my good friends in high school went to Devry. I think it was mostly on scholarship however. And a different major than you're doing. Anyways, immediately after graduation, he obtained a good position with one of the more well known tech companies in the United States. I believe he's been there ever sense, 8 or 9 years later.

I've always been under the impression that Devry does good work in trying to place you somewhere after graduation. I'm sure you know about that more than I or any others here since you attend the school and have heard the sales pitch. So that is something to take into consideration if that is your goal.

Anyways, whatever you choose to do, you will always be able to look back and say, "on one hand I'm glad I went with this school, and on the other hand, if only I would have attended someplace else..."

If money is your biggest concern, you can always go extremely cheap. I'm not sure of Pennsylvania's system, but I did my first two years at community college and saved a lot of money. I've never felt that a community college and state university mixture on my resume has inhibited me being chosen for a job.

 

[MDXer]

There is nothing wrong when going to a traditional University of doing your Core classes at a Community or JR College.

Paul
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Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[rocketkidd777]

Thanks so much for the advice!! Due to the current condition of our economy, I'll be leaving Devry. Hopefully I'll soon be off to a state school for the second semester.

Thanks again!!

 

[RiverGuy]

I hope that all of your classes which you have already taken transfer over to the state university.

 

[Thargy]

rocket,

I am typing from across the pond, and have 25 years in I.T. I am a senior oracle DBA looking to move into architect roles.

What my more sagacious tutors told me when I was at university getting a BSc in Electrical and Electronic Engineering (sadly many years ago now) was that it doesn't matter a stuff after your first job what grade you got, or (within reason) where you got your degree. Employers take it as a sign that this person can single-mindedly exercise self-discipline for four years to obtain a non-trivial qualification. If someone came to me for a job, and had a degree in Astrophysics, I would consider them seriously. Not because Astrophysics has anything to do with Oracle, but this person has demonstrably shown that they can take a subject seriously, through dint of application and determination gain superior knowledge therein and apply it. If this guy/gal is in any way logical, they have the potential to be a top-flight programmer/developer, at the very least.

Five years down the line, the fact that a total muppet got a first from Oxbridge is 'nonse', as I would always go for the determined humble git who graduated from a no-name red-brick university. Your degree is just the first door-opener, nothing more. After job 2 or 3, it's your experience and character that is most valuable.

Regards

T

 

[MDXer]

What my more sagacious tutors told me when I was at university getting a BSc in Electrical and Electronic Engineering (sadly many years ago now) was that it doesn't matter a stuff after your first job what grade you got, or (within reason) where you got your degree.

This is absolutley true. What do you call someone who got Cs in medical school? Doctor.


Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[rocketkidd777]

As far as i know, most of my credits will transfer, thankfully

As far as school just being a door opener, that makes me feel even more strongly against accruing a massive debt obtaining that first degree

 

[Welshbird]

At the risk of being pedantic, (and being aware that it might be different in different areas) my sister is a doctor, and her degree doesn't have a 'level' of fisrt, 2.1
or whatever. Doctors in the UK are just doctors.

Having said that, I completely agree with Tharg. I don't have a degree at all, but at my time of life and my level it really doesn't matter. My experience is so much more relevant right now.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[MDXer]

Along With Tharg and willif I have no degree but lots of experience in the area of IT I work in. The lack of a degree has never been an issue. I have hit that point where having a degree is more of something I want to accomplish for myself.



Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[spamly]

Experience almost always trumps a degree. I think it's the idea that one with practical experience knows more than one who has studied theoretical applications.

Okay, that said, I still think that a degree is very important. It generally allows for a greater range of opportunities when entering the market. It also fills in that stupid check box that many (not all) HR departments have when they are looking at filling positions. "Does the applicant have a degree? Check."

10 years ago I made the decision to stop my university education and to jump into the marketplace. This was after 4 years of military experience with complex networks, database servers, and encryption technologies. It was the right decision for me. The market was exploding and I was able to grab a position with my skills that I may not have been able to get had I waited.

Now I'm looking at mixing things up a bit. I've finished my degree (night classes) and I'm hoping to move up and develop complex strategies for IT departments. I work with some very talented people who are unable to apply for "higher" positions because they don't have that degree. It's unfortunate because these individuals have the skill sets to succeed, but don't have that paper.

My point with all of this? Don't just focus on the short term when you're making these decisions about how you are going to invest in yourself and your career. Factor in your long term goals.

 

[PaulBricker]

Old people who have lots of experience don't need degrees. Their resume is proof enough. BUT, young people starting out in these fields, should absolutely look at getting degrees. In a few more years no one is going to hire without one. It has been the same on down with any profession that requires some specialty knowledge. MD's and lawyers right on down to electricians and plumbers. Experience was always enough originally, but once the professions really hit their stride, formal education was/is the only way to enter those fields. So if you are young, get into school.

Paul

 

[MDXer]

I'm an old people!!!
I'm an old people!!!



Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[PaulBricker]

So am I


Paul

 

[CajunCenturion]

One aspect of a degree is that you're exposed to a wide variety of topics in your field in a short period of time. You're also exposed to many of the fundamental basics of the industry. Generally speaking, someone with a degree has a broader foundation upon which to draw when dealing with new issues. A degree represents a broad-based education.

Experience is also a very valuable commodity, but it is limited to what you've experienced. Over time, it may become broad based as you gain experience in many facets of the industry, or it can become very specialized in certain areas where you focus your efforts.the jobs that you've had. There is a huge difference between someone who has ten years of experience and a person who has one year of experience ten times.

Both a degree and experience are important. For some jobs, experience will be more valuable, but for others, the degree will be more valuable.


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[KornGeek]

So, what we've learned so far is that people named Paul are old.

 

[spamly]

And "experienced".