Regular Unpaid Overtime 2

[Welshbird]

The main production day at my work is on a Friday, and as we try to provide our products to clients as early as possible we have ended up with a culture where certain people stay late on a Friday evening to make sure all will be ready for dispatch on Monday.

Now this isn't shared around at all - the same people stay, and they do so out of a mixture of guilt and dedication I think. One member of staff has resigned (not completely due to this, but at least partly) and so we are now one guilt-ridden free overtimer short.

My boss expects me to fill in for her until we find more a more permanent solution.

So, in the last two weeks I have worked an extra 2.5 hours each Friday evening. Weekends have just had to be put back.

I guess my question is "How best do I broach this subject?" - I don't believe we can expect any one to do this long term; especially reasonably junior people who aren't paid too much anyway. It's a big part of the reason as to why the turnover of staff in this role is high.

And to be honest, I just don't want to do this every weekend. I'm actually ending up covering for someone in a different department to me as well.

Any advice gratefully received chaps. Before I get so miserable about it that I do summat daft and cause a P45 to be printed......

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[dyarwood]

Could you tell your boss on a Friday that you can not work late you have tickets to cinema/theatre/sporting event which you have been looking forward to for a long time? Then at least it will put the idea of you having a life outside of work and your boss may offer you incentives to stay behind. Then you can bring up the subject of is this incentive just a one off or is it available for all overtime you work. Just a thought.

 

[Welshbird]

Good idea.

I'm going away for a weekend soon and so have 'booked' going home on time.



Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[dyarwood]

Depending on your situation it may be an idea to not "book" going home on time (although I do like that) but just to start walking out of the office and make a point of saying have a good weekend to your boss and wait for him/her to get flustered.

 

[GSmitherman]

I ran into a similar situation. We had a meeting and were told we could say anything without fear of reprisal. I spoke up and said it was not fair we were working alot of overtime hours and not being paid for it. I was told my attitude was lacking in teamwork. Two days after the meeting I was fired. I was told I am an outstanding tech and my job performance was second to none. I was fired because the owner said I was a cancer.
The end result is I found a better job and environment. The company I worked for feared a lawsuit and started paying overtime. This company is now on the verge of collapse. I guess it is true...Karma is a mother******!

 

[Welshbird]

I'm tempted to do the same thing.

I got really annoyed today as I found out the process we are deperately trying to kick off before the weekend actually takes 15 minutes to run. So there is no reason whatsoever why we could not do that at 8am Monday morning and actually not lose more than 20 minutes then. Instead of the two and a half hours on a Friday.

I'm really close to just resigning, but its a daft reason to do it. It just adds on to everything else that annoys me though.

ARG!

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[JCreamerII]

willif,

I have been at my current employer for 20 years, the first week my boss came out to my car (as I was leaving), at the end of my day. He wanted to know why I was leaving, I told him, and I haven't ever been asked to move into management since. It worked out good for me though, I got home every night on time, and didn't have to put in 60 -> 80 hours and get paid for 37.5. I worked late or on the weekend if asked or when I am on a project and I needed the extra time. I have been able to watch a lot of my kids sports, and coach a team when so inclined. Who got the better deal? Small company 160 emp's., so not much up side anyway!

Jim C.

 

[LadySlinger]

Unfortunately I've seen this oh-so-many times. In fact at my last job I was effected by a similar situation (more work, no extra pay for it).

If this is something that you're willing to do, keep the essence of "helping out" to just that. I would talk to your manager and reaffirm that you can help out...when you can (thus alluding to a life outside of work). Also suggest keeping this as a temporary solution by saying that you will work for X days like this (i.e. the next month) until they can find a perminant solution.

The tricky aspect of this whole situation is that you still need to show teamwork (as after all that it was keeps a company running) but you don't want to become exhausted from it like you said.

If this is something you do not want to do at all, suggest a $5-10 raise while you fill in.

 

[Welshbird]

I have explained that I don't want to do this, but I'm actually filling in for someone who, once recruited, will be earning approximately half (yip) my salary.

My major concern is that they won't stay. Just like the last person didn't.

I've tried explaining this to the boss, but she doesn't want to see it.

Thanks for all kind advice chaps.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[chiph]

I ran into a similar situation. We had a meeting and were told we could say anything without fear of reprisal. I spoke up and said it was not fair we were working alot of overtime hours and not being paid for it.

Whenever you're in a meeting, and they say you can speak freely ... don't.

If you have something negative to say about the firm, other employees, or managers, say it in a private meeting.

Old adage: Praise in public, criticise in private.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[JCreamerII]

willif,

In addition to Chip H. thoughts, if they say you can speak freely, they may actually be looking for people that they can fire. They may be trying to determine if someones attitude is not were they want it and use the comments as the identifier to let that person go. They may use any other reason as the noted comments to let you go. So be careful of these type meetings as they may be just a fishing expedition. Be positive and stay positive and if you have a negative comment discuss it with a person that you can trust, if there isn't one, be careful.

Jim C.

 

[GSmitherman]

Isn't it a shame that is common for management to try these tactics. I am an old Marine, if you ask I will tell. I believe if people are too afraid to talk, that team will fail.
I was right, that team is failing. They have lost all but one of their techs. I think those that are good can always find a job. It took me less than 2 hours to find mine.
I would hate to work in an environment where I am too afraid to say things. If you don't want to know, don't ask.

 

[Welshbird]

I think it is a shame.

I have been honest and said that I'm unhappy with the situation, and I am. I think we have to find a way around it because NO ONE should be made to feel guilty for not wanting to work late on a Friday for no pay.

I haven't won yet, but I will. Probably...

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[lionelhill]

Sorry not to have looked at this thread earlier.

Is there a case for appealing to the management's sense of professionalism? A good manager thinks ahead, and isn't going to want a business-critical operation to be entirely dependent on a flaked-out grumpy worker on unpaid overtime. The manager's reasons are entirely selfish: It may have worked so far, but sooner or later someone is going to walk out at the wrong moment, or make a stupid mistake because they're tired and disgruntled, and on Monday all hell will break loose, and the management will have to deal with the consequences. This selfish thought should outweigh the selfish desire that someone should continue to work for nothing.

The difficulty is how to sow the seed that will give rise to the correct selfish thought...

 

[Thadeus]

Is this process something that has to happen after-hours on a Friday? Or is it something that just does occur at that time (the old "because that's how it is" meme)?

I am curious because if it is truly ad hoc the way it sounds and requires variable effort (differing # of employees and hours involved), then it may be the symptom of a bad process or life cycle that needs to be improved at the root and not the symptom.

I am definitely curious.

~Thadeus

 

[Welshbird]

We receive all data to be processed on a Friday, and if we can process it all then it can be extracted over the weekend and then dispatched to clients on a Monday. The fastest data service in the west, if you will.

The thing that REALLY annoys me about it, is the fact that we stay late and rush and stuff, and then we prepare individual data sources on Monday, and then we burn them to CD and post them!

If we finished the processing on Monday we could FTP them and still be earlier, and no-one work late.

And LionelHill - Someone did get disgruntled and walk out already - which is why I am now involved. But I suspect not for all that long.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[aarenot]

If you are a salaried employee rather than hourly, then that is just the way it is. Although, if it is outside your department, you should have been wiser to eliminate yourself by coming up with some other duty you need to be available to do within your department during that time to disqualify yourself.
Or, stay late but to do ABC which does not allow you to do this other function XYZ, until they find someone else to do it XYZ, then stop staying late on Friday to do this other duty ABC since it XYZ is now covered already by someone else. Another option is to just make up the time off by leaving early, coming in late, or taking a longer lunch to compensate yourself(maybe on Monday)

If you are an hourly paid employee do not punch out unless you leave work. You could also do as above, and adjust your schedule to work later by coming in later. Another consideration is that if you are hourly, and not being paid, you cannot be disciplined for your performance during time you are not being paid for.

Another tactic is when asked initially is to tell them that you will have to get your medical appointment rescheduled prior to being able to adjust your schedule(chiropractor is a good re-occuring type appointment). Offer to stay late in alternating schedule with your boss as a solution.

 

[Welshbird]

We are all salaried, and to be fair, the boss always stays too.

And our whole company consists of 7 people, so I haven't got a distinct department that enables me to do this.

I'm trying to argue that if we finished this on a Monday and FTP'd the output rather than posting it then we could still supply this out to clients earlier than we do now, and not ahve to work late.

(As an aside, its now 12:30pm, and today has gone so well that we are almost finished, so today at least it isn't going to be an issue - WOOT).

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[aarenot]

Cost benefit report on your plan might be a great place to start. Inlcude retraining costs, morale, etc in the cost area, and do not be afraid to include using what he says he would be doing if he did not have to stay late himself! Benefit= making that 5:15 Tee time on Friday, or seeing your grand/kids sporting event.

Also, on days like today, leave early since the job is done. That is part of the give and take of salary isn't it?

 

[JCreamerII]

willif,

And nobody wants to hear it? Change isn't always bad. aarenot, I had the exact same thought, willif would you get to leave early if the day is done before 5:00 PM.

Jim C.