Raise 2

[earlrainer]

Hey guys,
I have been working in this company for 7 years now.
Our company has a strict policy of not discussing salary issues with other employees.
My salary has not been raised since beginning of 2005.
I was ok with this but last month the company has hired 3 new developers who are put under me for training.They are not more qualified than me .However I have learnt that they are being given the same salary as me.This obviously is very demotivating to me.
All i want to know from you guys is if any of you have been in this situation.
Our company does not have an yearly review where one can sit with the boss , discuss the performance and ask for a raise.
How do I raise this issue with my boss without appearing too nosy?

 

[LizSara]

As you have been given 3 new staff members and become a training officer couldn't you use that as a reason to ask for a raise. you don't need to tell the boss that you know they get paid the same as you.

You should always be able to go into your boss and show him/her what you have acheived since your last raise and ask for another.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. ~ Nietzsche"
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[earlrainer]

Thank You Liz , I will try to use that approach.
Thank you

 

[Ed2020]

You should also bear in mind that no pay rise for three years means that effectively your salary has gone *down* each year since 2005.

So responsibilities go up whilst earnings go down. If your boss is a reasonable man that ought to be enough to persuade him/her!

Ed Metcalfe.

Please do not feed the trolls.....

 

[earlrainer]

Hi Ed ,
You are correct.
My responsibilities have gone up a lot.
Finally I have gathered enough steam to knock on his door and ask for a raise
thank you for your comment

 

[bdreed35]

Don't take this the wrong way but it took you four years to gather enough steam to ask for a raise? Was the company not doing well during this time? What was their justification for not giving increases?

~Brian

 

[Bandenjamin]

Avoid any mention of deserving a raise because you get paid the same as people who you are training. That is irrelevant. Simply show what you have done to deserve a raise to your boss. If they don't want to give you one, be prepared to find work elsewhere.

--Dan
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain

 

[aarenot]

Forget the raise.

You have been promoted to an entirely new position with a new set of duties. That involves having your position re-evaluated for compensation based on the new set of duties which are not even close to your old duties. The task here is to show the huge difference in your job duties, and responsibilities.

 

[earlrainer]

Thank you all for taking the time to comment on my question.

Yes Brian , the company has started to do well only since last year.So i guess now is the time to stop being too nice and ask for a raise.

Thank you guys once again.
I will keep you informed on the outcome

 

[SQLSister]

Remember the best way to get a significant raise is to get a new title as well. That's why the additional job duties thing will help you get a raise.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[Dollie]

Wow... I need a raise. I could have written the first post with just some minor editing. I haven't gotten a raise since gas was $1.45.

But, with two screwed up projects this last year (one not my fault but reflects on me, one about 50% my fault, 50% user faults), they're not going to reward poor performance even though my responsibilities have changed so dramatically (admin/sec to sys admin in the last several years). I'm also not college educated, but am furiously working on that part as well.

Not seeing a good future any time soon...and I claim to love my job.

 

[wlemery]

One thing I've noticed is that, like it or not, when you're at work you're in a popularity contest. If the boss likes you and enjoys working with you, you're more likely to get a raise or promotion.

 

[xmsre]

It's a value thing... and if the company you currently work for doesn't see it, don't be afraid to look for one that does. Sometimes moving out is the only way to move up, and in IT it doesn't necessarially reflect negatively upon you.

 

[aarenot]

Dollie,
If they are not giving you more pay(at a rate that reflects your duties, and responsibilities), and not giving you training( to improve your performance in the area of the new duties), and free education( in the area of your new duties), then they cannot expect you to perform like a highly paid, trained, and educated performer. If they add duties/responsibilites, and not pay/education/training then they are happy to bandaid it by throwing a body at it, not resources, so do not worry yourself about it.

 

[brady12345]

What happened with your Raise and how did you approach it?

 

[aarenot]

First of allI am assuming that this business is a privately held company, not one on the stock market?

Second of all I assume that the company does not open its' books up to yourself, and you are not a person in charge of the budget p0lanning for your department?

The reason that I ask if the company is privately held is because if it is then the profit or loss of the company is not your business, or anyones business who is not the private owner. That means that you should not be concerning yourself with the profit/loss other than doing your job to the best of your abilities minding frugality with company resopurces. If this issue comes up you should let the owner/boss know that if he is willing to open up the books to you then you could offer some help, but short of that, you can not concern yourself with the way the comapny is managed since you do not make the management decisions. I am going to say this about most small businessmen, not your owner. They put their wife, brother, sister, kids, house, cars, newspapers, meals, etc., etc. on the books, and some even rent from themsleves for their business at unreal high rents to hide profits, so ignore most owners when they say they make no profit unless they open the books. Does the boss/owner drive a company car, if so, there is not a profit issue unless it is 15 year old piece oc crap. Does he go out to lunch on the expense account, vacation, "business trips", company parties, Christmas parties? If an owner is not hiding profits, he is not doing the normal thing, after a while they forget how much they are hiddng, and act like it is not being made.

 

[aarenot]

You might want to hint a bit about doubting the security of the comapny when they talk about no profits, since if they were really not making a profit, they would not be paying you, they would close up shop. Make it a worrisome issue between you and your wife with the desperate situation with the employer, and the company being in such trouble when you talk to the owner. Ask if you should be worried about your job, and if there is a short term plan to return the firm to profitability since this is a really serious issue if it is going to effect your carreer progression, and the companies longevity.

Also, let him know it is your job to do a good job, and his to find a way to pay you what you deserve, including competitively, regardless of any of his financial issues with the company. If he needs to invest more to keep your pay where it should be then that is his issue, not yours.

I told a former employer, that with billing my time out at 125$/hr 60%, and 20% at 100$/hr of my total hours, he better not be doing anything but profitable business, or I will lose comnfidence in him. If he can not control the costs outside of myself that is his issue, and I do not care to discuss it, unless he wants to pay me to discuss it. After I made it clear that I do my job very well, and I expect the same from him, and his firm, or they can take the sub par pay not myself, he unsderstood.

 

[brady12345]

Well, my thoughts are if they dont give you what you want after the time you spent with the company its time to move on. I think 7 years is tooooooo looooong with one place, or soooo Im told. I myself have been with one company for 7.7 years and now that I am looking for other positions; other Employers act like this amount of time is a lifetime, fact is I went thru 3 titles and learned a ton but think I just hit the brick wall of learning. Anyways if your in a Mom and Pops shop GET OUT; if its a large company, change Jobs.

Just my thoughts here!

Brady

 

[aarenot]

I do not know you, so this is kind of hard to say, so I will just say it clearly.
If he has not given you any raise for what is a month or so short of three years there are two possible scenarios. I am sure you can decide which. This does assume you were not overpaid by three years worth of cost of living increases in 2004(which depends on how much the cost of living increased over that period, my guess 3%/yr), and overpaid by any amount you might have earned in an increase in wages in comparison to your market value at that time(2004).

1) You really are not worth a crap at what you do, and he is only keeping you around out of charity.

2) He is knowingly totaly taking advantage of you for three years regardless of his business financial situation.

As a business owner, if I am going to expand, or whatever, and I need someones skills to do so, the expense to provide for that skill set being available is my expense to cover. That expense may or may not be covered by revenue for a period of time which is supposed to be what is called an investment on my part. If you are willing to do that investing yourself by not getting what you are worth for three years start your own business, not build his. The sacrifice is the same, only you do not own the business in your case. Stop investing in his business if you are not going to get what you are worth.

Lastly, do not train these new guys to do your job unless you get the promotion, and an increase to cover your investment back to you reflected in your new salary. I doubt you had anyone teach it to you, so let them learn it themselves unless you are being paid to be the one in charge, and leading a group, or at least training a group. Also, if you are good enough to be responsible for a job you are good enough to be paid for that job at the going rates do not wait until you meet some goal to get your pay unless the pay, and the goal are in a contractual document as to when you reach the goal you get the money. A bonus at the goal, and a raise are in order in almost all situations, and yes I have been there, and gotten my rewards by asking for them in writing when I reach the goals. Most employers have no issue with rewarding documented performance on a pre agreed plan.