RAID options on PE2800 3

[SirBC]

I'm trying to configure a Poweredge 2800 on the Dell website with the following setup:

RAID 1 (2x36 GB) for OS
RAID 5 (4x36 BG and 1 hot spare) for data

But the only split backplane option I see is a "2X4 Hot-Pluggable Split Backplane,PE2800". Does that mean I can't have 2 ports on one channel and 6 on the other? Or is that something I would have to call and have them configure for me?

Thanks!

-Dave

 

[technome]

Two Gigs will hold you, make sure they populate the ram so you have slots left over,500 Meg sticks are reasonable, gig stick too expensive.

Good you will be installing from SBS yourself. The less Dell software on the server the better, less to create problems.


........................................
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[twwabw]

Dell actually installs little if any of their own software on the server in a normal install, with the exception of the OpenManage software. OM is a great application, and you would be well served to install it. It is the easiest way to monitor all internal systems such as temps; fans; Raid controllers; and is also a valuable tool for for keep track of hardware changes; firmware, etc. It will come with the server, and is your best way to set up the OS.

Another thing you need to consider, is a 2nd processor. Your software says this is a requirement, if more than 10 WS are connected, and you indicate 10-15 concurrent. Personally, I think I would consult with their technical people a little more to thoroughly evaluate your infrastructure. You're really asking a lot from a single server; you're asking it to be your (sole) DC; your Exchange Server; your file server; your print server (presumably); anti-virus server; someone mentioned ISA server; and also a SQL server running what appears to be a pretty top-heavy application. A lot is hanging on a single server implementation here.

They mention MANY times about the use of thin client, such as Citrix and TermSrvr; and I can imagine why. Database apps like this can really wallow when they are utilized across a LAN. A lot of data is continuously pumped back and forth between the client and the server during queries and reporting, and that's the reason why so many accounting and management apps like this recommend a Terminal server (or Citrix) for the job. When this app runs on a TS, all the processing is done locally on the server- the client is just transmitting screen shots and keystrokes. It dramatically cuts down on network traffic since the data itself is not being transmitted back and forth. It also allows the use of some pretty wimpy workstations at the client side, since they aren't actually running the app or processing it locally. The server is doing this.

I think you're going to find your tech people will advise you to implement a scenario like this if you have 15 clients connected. And running terminal services sets up another whole scenario.

You cannot set up an SBS2003 server as a terminal server. Whether Citrix allows it or not, I don't know. But I can tell you from experience a TerSrv with 15 clients is going to be busy. I can't fathom it running on the SBS box even if it were allowed. This also means you would need to purchase SQL server as a stand-alone application, as the SBS install can not be put on another server. At that point, you would want to save the money (about 4-500) on the SBS Premium; downgrade that to standard; Purchase a 2nd server; purchase SQL server; and purchase Terminal Server (or Citrix) licensing.

Have they mentioned any of this to you?? It would be disastrous for you to spend the time and money on this setup, only to find it is completely inadequate for the main application you intend to run.

 

[SirBC]

Hmm.... I will give their tech support a call to discuss.

 

[twwabw]

It's not the end of the world if they want you to run it on TermSrv.- it just mean a 2nd server, and a re-evaluation of how you'll set the primary server up. You can still run SBS2003 for DC; Mail; Data; etc;, but you'll need a 2nd box to run Terminal Server (or Citrix) and Dolphin Management Ortho. I have a couple client sites where we run SBS2003 as you would in this scenario on 2600's; and we used 2650 Rackmounts for Terminal server and their accounting apps. You can add DC's; Servers; etc. to SBS Domains as you would any other Windows Domain- but the SBS has to hold FSMO server roles. As an asise, your SBS Cals will satisfy the Server2003 licensing for the TS, but you will still need TS licenses for each client connecting.

As a general rule, TS really lets these kind of apps fly- and the apps tend to be more stable, since data is not being processed and manipulated by a multitude of external connected clients. It does add another layer of complexity, but you could look at that from an opportunists point of view too- it means you're pulling at least one major function away from your main server. If there are issues with this app; or if it requires maintenance with re-boots etc., that doesn't affect your SBS main server. It also means you could possibly tone down your requirements for the SBS box, and save a little money there to push onto the TS.

 

[twwabw]

SirBC- you haven't posted back in more than a week.... how'd you make out with Tech Support at OM? What did they have to say??

 

[SirBC]

I just spoke with them this morning. Basically, my setup should be fine. A lot of orthodontic practices have two (or more) offices so they really recommend using Termial Services for offices using one server but connecting from multiple locations. For a one office location they seem to think that my server would be fine. I hope so, because it's in the mail and will be here this week

- Dave

 

[SirBC]

Looks like the server will be here on Friday

I asked for it without an OS, and configured with RAID 1 and RAID5. Will it come ready for me to just starting loading SBS2003, or will I have to format and setup the raid array's?

Also, I think I've read that Dell has some server software (Openmanage and/or Server Setup??). Will these be installed, or do I have to install them? And should I install them?

 

[twwabw]

Yes- Like I said above:
"with the exception of the OpenManage software. OM is a great application, and you would be well served to install it. It is the easiest way to monitor all internal systems such as temps; fans; Raid controllers; and is also a valuable tool for for keep track of hardware changes; firmware, etc. It will come with the server, and is your best way to set up the OS"

The Server Assistant CD is the easiest way to set up the server. It gives you the option of setting up the diagnostic partition (which you should do); Setting up the array on the boot drive; partitioning it; and creates the answer file for windows install with all the appropriate drivers. Then, once Windows installation is complete, you can install the rest of the Open Manage software to monitor every system on the server. It's really great software.

 

[twwabw]

Just curious why you ordered it without an OS?? Dell's pricing for SBS2003 and CALs is pretty incredible. I was just configuring one this morning for another client, and see SBS2003 Std. is only $374, and a 5-pack of CALs is only $337. This beats any pricing I've seen aywhere. Also, by ordering without OS, I believe they are not obligated to provide Software support.

 

[LawnBoy]

As I understand it, when you buy a pre-installed OS from Dell the license is tied to that box. If that box dies, the license cannot be moved to another box like it can with a full (not bundled) license.

 

[SirBC]

Yeah, the issue LawnBoy mentions is one of the reasons. If I ever wanted to move to another server I would have to buy SBS all over again. The other reason is that Dell doesn't offer the SBS2003 upgrade. I have an old copy of SBS 4.5 (bought on ebay, never used), so I ordered SBS2003 Premium upgrade for around $525. Also, I would have flattened the Dell install even if it came pre-installed so I figured the best best was to order it without. Acutally, when I configured the server, the "No OS" was the default selection as well.

What is the "diagnostic" partition?

 

[LawnBoy]

The Diag partition is a small partition Dell installs on the boot drive. This partition contains all the system utilities so you don't have to have the Dell utilities CD on hand. You do have to restart the server to get at these utilities, just like you would if you had the CD.

I never install diag partitions and I never run a factory loaded OS on a server. My first step with a new server is to fdisk the drive/array and start over cold. That way I know for sure I have all the disks and drivers needed to reload, and I know exactly what's loaded on the box and how it's configured.

 

[twwabw]

As I understand it, when you buy a pre-installed OS from Dell the license is tied to that box. If that box dies, the license cannot be moved to another box like it can with a full (not bundled) license."

This is technically true. But, I ran into a situation this spring where a new client had gone ahead and ordered a "white-box" server from a local vendor, who also supplied SBS2003, OEM version. I had no control over how this p.o.s. was configured, as it happened before they retained me. After a couple months (as I had warned them) the garbage IDE array controller (yes.... IDE raid on an SBS Server; OMG) dies again, and I told them it was time to turn this heap into a nice little PC (which is all it was IMO), and order a new server. In fact, we ordered a new PE2800.

I order it from Dell with no OS, and since it had been previously activated, I called MS and explained the situation telling them the server failed. They said no problem,, and gave me a new activation code. So, although I know it technically violates the EULA for OEM, MS is not always the "evil empire", and will work with you.

If you move the software to a new server, you're going to need to call them and explain anyway, since your copy will already have been activated.

 

[twwabw]

And FWIW, I always install the disgnostic partition, and their software... on Dell and Compaq/HP servers. It can really save your a*s if something happens that prevents you from booting to the OS. There's a lot of utilities there, and if you want their support people to help, you really should install it. It's not invasive, and I have never had it cause any issues on dozens of servers. Ever.

 

[LawnBoy]

Well, it does eat up a partition and frequently I need every one I can get.

As far as I've ever seen, there's nothing on the utility partition that isn't on the utility CD. The partition is non-invasive, you have to shut down and boot to that partition which guarantees it won't interfere with your OS. Same with the Utility CD.

YMMV.

 

[twwabw]

This is true.... you can boot from the CD and perform the same functions. Providing when you get there, you can find the CD! You hope that someone in the office hasn't locked the software up in a cabinet in an office you have no access to, on a Thursday night at 11:00pm when you arrive after a few frantic calls that e-mail is down. The partition is only a little over 100Mb, so it really isn't very large.

 

[SirBC]

It came today I had no idea what a tank it would be. I almost broke my back just moving it. I'm going to try and get my OS installed this weekend. Wish me luck! Thanks twwabw, technome and LawnBoy for all of the help.

 

[twwabw]

Yeah- they're a beast... about 110 pounds, and shipped on a pallet! Only thing I don't like is the plastic front cover. 25/2600's had hinged steel front covers with locks. This snap-on plastic one with the upper bay door is the pits. I just leave 'em off. But for people that have secure data center servers, must be a pain. I know it locks, but it's pretty cheesy.

 

[SirBC]

Even nicer would have been some casters so I could at least roll it around. It's going to be a bear moving it to my office once I get it setup.

 

[twwabw]

Wants casters = server on the floor? Ugh! No place for a server. They are dust vacuum with all those fans (wait til you fire it up ) and you will fill that box full. Should really be off the floor in some fashion.