Racial Profiling

[fumei]

Two questions.

What IS racial profiling?

Is it only racial profiling if it - whatever comes as a definition - is does by an organization? In other words, if someone, an individual, reacts, treats, interacts, with an identified group in a particular manner based on their beliefs regarding that group - is this racial profiling?

Hmmmm, I guess those could be considered together as:

Does racial profiling = racism?

Obviously, it CAN mean racism. But does it always mean racism?

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[fumei]

As CC keeps reminding, this is a discussion on language. However, the problem with language of any sort is that it is always an interpretation of intention.

One may mean one thing, but say another. This can be because of:

1. you do not know the correct word that is closest to what your intention is;

2. you are deliberately using a word to hide your intention;

3. you are too busy, lazy, don't care to find out the precise way to speak your intention.

So what do we have here? Is this a discussion of the language? Of using the term "profiling", or a discussion on whether using profiling is a good thing, or not?

My original intention was to get a discussion of what racial profiling IS, what does it mean? In particular, is the term only applicable to organizations?

IMHO, here is where we are. The term racial profiling IS an organizational term. Technically, it is not a term that applies to an individual. An individual may have mental/imagination processes that are essentially identical, but it is not the same. Racial profiling is an process of the state, for whatever purpose.

Just to clarify this point - if a company makes a product used for the treatment of sickle cell disease and its ads only have black people in them - this is NOT racial profiling. It is true that non-Negroid people can have sickle cell, but it is also true that the vast majority are black people. To "target" them is not racial profiling.

Are we agreed on this?

To reiterate, the TERM racial profiling is a procedure/process used by an organization - but, if I may, specifically the state. There are a number of organizations that express attitudes towards race. These may be considered racist (if negative), and good business (if positive).

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Is this a discussion of the language?
That is what this forum is for.

==> or a discussion on whether using profiling is a good thing, or not?
This is not an appropriate topic for this forum.

==> However, the problem with language of any sort is that it is always an interpretation of intention.
That's true, and you've listed three possible intentions, but there is a fourth intention that is very much at play.

A person may intentionally use, or in fact, try to define a term in an attempt to deliberately disparage another person, an organization, or a state. It's a deliberate attempt to transfer the negative connotations of a term onto the organization under attack.

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[fumei]

Thanks CC. I agree. As I stated, I was in my original post attempting to grasp the meaning of the phrase.

In the light of this, perhaps this thread is done?

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[IknowMe]

fumie, Prior to your post I always associated a negative conatation with the term. I find your question very thought provoking.

Just to clarify this point - if a company makes a product used for the treatment of sickle cell disease and its ads only have black people in them - this is NOT racial profiling. It is true that non-Negroid people can have sickle cell, but it is also true that the vast majority are black people. To "target" them is not racial profiling.

Are we agreed on this?

I'll attempt to explain my thoughts as follows.

If a company producing the martian brain treatment develops tests and markets for the race with the largest percentage of inflictions (martians), I believe the term racial profiling is appropriate as a selection is being made by race. I also feel this wouldn't fall into the catagory of racism as the endeavor is constructive to and most likely welcomed by the race profiled in development.

I also believe if the ads for the treatment were aired solely on MTV (Martian Television) that the target audience is being racially profiled as well.

To sum up, I feel racial profiling can be used both positivly and negativly and since racism implies using ones race against them in a negative manner, that racial profiling does not always constitute racism.

I would also like to apolagize to the martians for any offense that may have been taken place dueto my using their race as an example, no ill harm was intended.

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Since we are approaching the de facto end of this thread, and since I believe there are additional issues to explore on the topic of "Racism", "Sexism", et cetera, that transcend a strictly linguistic treatment, I believe I shall post a thread in the appropriate forum ("Squaring the Circle" [STC]) for such an exploration.

The problem with STC is that many here on MAI ("Making an Impression") that contribute to threads here, are not members of STC: Currently MAI has 4,603 members while STC has only 139 members. I believe that the main reason that STC has so few members is because the moderator of that forum chose to make STC a "private" forum, which means simply that you must request to join that forum and wait for the moderator to "let you in" before you can post to threads in that forum, while MAI is a "public" forum that anyone can "join" simply by posting to threads in MAI.

I highly encourage you who are not STC members to go ahead and request to join STC so that we can continue discussions that transcend linguistic issues. Joining STC, despite its being "private", costs nothing and has no minimum standards -- I'm proof...they let me join.

So, follow us over to STC if you wish to continue this discussion there. (I'll post a thread momentarily.)

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[fumei]

As CC pointed out, this is not the place for discussion on the good/bad of it. At least not in THIS forum.

However, as was also pointed out, this is a delicate area. If discussion on meaning - valid in this forum - bring in intent and/or purposes, does that move it out of acceptable range.

I don't know. All we can do it be sensitive and caring.

ONE of the problems with this is the word "racial". Now race is a funny thing. For some, race brings a POV that is in fact cultural, not racial. As has been pointed out, SouthEast Asians, African-Americans, Latinos et al, can be included in a process that has quite a different profile in mind.

In my mind "racial profiling" is neither acceptable, nor productive. "Profiling" is acceptable and perhaps productive.

Profiling is still in its early stages, but for example there is growing evidence of its use in solving serial crimes. Behavioural profiling is becoming more and more common as an investigational tool.

The difference is that the latter (profiling) may have "race" as one of many factors. The former (racial profiling) always has race as the prime factor and uses too broad a brush.

However, again, I do want to keep within the realm of this forum, so is this still a valid thread?

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[CajunCenturion]

This is another example where the denoation of a term, and the connotation of a term can be quite different. It's also clear that some of the strong feelings about this term are based in its connotation, and not it's denoation.


Thanks SantaMufasa - that's a great idea.

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Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
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[fumei]

The End

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[buck2506]

I know the end has come but I would like to add that racial profiling has a negative connotation when used in conjunction with law enforcement. If used in a different context the term has a more positive meaning. Mr Milson has the right idea, in that if the term and thought process are used in an advertising context it is acceptable.

That is one of the things I don't care for in advertising. But as it is said "Know your market"

 

[Thadeus]

Racial profiling is an process of the state, for whatever purpose....
...To reiterate, the TERM racial profiling is a procedure/process used by an organization - but, if I may, specifically the state. There are a number of organizations that express attitudes towards race. These may be considered racist (if negative), and good business (if positive).

Sorry I'm late to the table, but I see a definition with which I do not agree.

I feel that "racial profiling" requires a policy. Either the police have been instructed to consider race or they haven't. If they receive a call that says the suspect is a white female then they have been trained (instructed) to look for white females...

An apartment landlord that requires a credit check on black applicants has a policy based on a racial profile that considers black people in this neighborhood a credit risk. He hasn't said he won't rent to black people. He may well become friends with his tenants, but so long as that apartment complex requires that credit check on black people only, they are applying a racial profile.

So from the angle that racial profiling is the bailiwick of the state, I disagree. I think businesses are capable of it as well. So my definition would strike the state part and append the requirement of a policy (written or de facto).

Well that was my 2/100 of a dollar.
~Thadeus

 

[SilentAiche]

Y'all seem kinda grumpy.

Can we discuss Rachel profiling? (she's dang cute from the side!)

Tim

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