"You people"

[medic]

I have to ask this question because I'm not well-versed with American grammar and culture.
I hear the phrase 'you people' a lot from a person I know. I never mind anybody saying this (for a long time) until I realized I can't imagine myself saying this phrase. It would sound like I have no respect to the persons I'm speaking to.

Can anybody please educate me more about this phrase?

 

[BobRodes]

I don't always use it in a negative context, although I tend to say "you folks" instead of "you people." Guess it's my folksy exterior.........

 

[tsdragon]

You folks" has an entirely different connotation than "you people".


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[BobRodes]

For me, it does not have. That fact refutes your assertion, in that the difference is not entire.......

Respectfully yours,

Bob

 

[SilentAiche]

"You folks" has an entirely different connotation than "you people".

I must agree with my fellow Mid-Atlantic coaster - "you folks" is far nicer a phrase than "you people." It's more inclusive, like the speaker is one of them (the audience).

Tim, as far as you know...







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[Thadeus]

"You Folks" v. "You People"
I struggled with this one for a few minutes yesterday and now again today.

I too am from the Mid-Atlantic and I wanted to say that "You folks..." is a friendlier phrase. But just as I pointed out contrary uses for "You people..." there are definite contrary uses for "You folks..." that are by no means friendly.

"You folks are gonna have to move to the back of the bus"

"If you folks don't back the [expletive] up I'm gonna bust someone in the face!"

"Aren't you folks on the Angry Left just a teensy bit embarassed that Usama parroted your talking points? Does the term "useful idiots" mean anything to you?"October 30, 2004

"You folks are pathetic!"link

[Just a little more mud in this water and I'll be through]

~Thadeus

 

[jsteph]

Thadeus,

You folks are gonna have to move to the back of the bus

Well... *anything* as the subject in that sentence would be negative (assuming the reasons for moving to the back are the assumed racial ones)
"You nice people are going to have to move to the back of the bus"
...might even be more condescending.
--Jim

 

[Thadeus]

Well, that was sort of the point... I'm not sure someone should get stirred up because they hear "You people" any more than they should feel friendly with someone who says "You folks"... It's all in the context.

~Thadeus

 

[PaulTEG]

It would be OK if used in the 'Italian Job' context.

"All 'you folks' should move to the front of the bus ... quickly, and quietly ..."

cigless ...

 

[JR333]

As a company I owned went under, I was stunned by the kindness nad dignity that my staff displayed. I was always color blind and, in this case, painfully unaware of what race I was talking to. The fact is, I just never paid any attention to who was what. A fine black gentleman that had risen to one of the highest positions of leadership in my company was in talks with me to buy the company in partnership with a white female. At a moment of pain and utter amazement at hundreds of people going out of their way to support me through this period, I said to the gentleman, "You people amaze me with your kindness and consideration as we've gone through this painful process."

I said this, because I certainly didn't deserve the praise I was dishing out. I was distancing myself from the group. I was doing it from two dimensions: 1) I didn't want to flatter myself during this. It was a sincere compliment to them. 2) Subconsciously, I was in deep pain and want to be harmless in all my actions. Yet when a company fails, it isn't just the owner that suffers. So I was probably distancing myself, subconsiously, from the effects of my inability to keep the company afloat.

I've regretted those words and it is a year later. I could see it was not taken in the spirit it was intended.

Yes, my grammer/spelling is not perfect. I absolutely did not intend for the words to be disparaging. But I REALLY regret chosing those two words.

 

[SteveGlo]

If there had been an adjective "You wonderful people amaze me..." would it have been taken differently I wonder ?

I would have thought the rest of the sentence 'kindness, consideration' would have made it quite clear that you didn't mean anything negative by your turn of phrase.

Shame - don't punish yourself anymore.

 

[tgreer]

You people" and "You folks" cannot possibly mean the same thing. How could they? They are different phrases.

[running, ducking, hiding by burying myself deeply in the "UP" thread]




Thomas D. Greer

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[CajunCenturion]

After thinking on this thread, what strikes me is the point brought out by SilentAiche, that in using the second person "you folks/people/whatever ...", the speaker separates him or herself from the audience. It is the interpretation of that separation that becomes part of the communicated thought, whether intentional or not.

I no longer think it makes that much difference what noun follows the 'you', the issue revolves around the use of second person, which is determined by using 'you'.

Of course, in context, separation may be desired, as is the case when I used the phrase "you people's minds are in the gutter", in another thread. My mind wasn't in the gutter, well ..., at least until reading the posts brought me into their company.

In any event, to me this boils down to a use of person. First First person (I) would be only about the speaker; second person (You) would be only about the audience, but third person (We) would be about us all.

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[SantaMufasa]

I believe we can all take a lesson from this thread in general and from JR's experience in specific: Avoid the unqualified use of the terms "You people" and "You folks".

We can avoid misunderstanding by qualifying "which people" we mean. Using JR's example, we could reword "You people amaze me with your kindness and consideration as we've gone through this painful process" to become, "You, who have exhibited such kindness and consideration as we've gone through this painful process, amaze me." The message of kind acknowledgement still shines through but without any possibility of misunderstanding or offense.

What think ye?


Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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[Thadeus]

Well Dave, what I personally think is that having to worry about unintended consequences stemming from an unintended "turn of phrase" is called politics.

And the process of creating a better constructed sentence* that avoids the possibility of misunderstanding is called being Politically Correct.

~Thadeus

* let's remember that "you [whatever]" was, in the example provided, a spoken phrase that I'm sure JR333 didn't parse out ahead of time.

 

[elanor]

I think Dave is correct because the second alternative places far more emphasis on the behavior that has amazed JR333 than on the separation of "you people" and the speaker. My prosaic mind, however, wonders if JR333 might have been spared his regret had he used the phrase "you guys" (and yes, despite the fact that one of them was not a guy). Whether it's because it's more casual or just more familiar, I think "you guys" has avoided the negative connotations of "you people."
Thanks!
Elanor

 

[SteveGlo]

I am interested in the 'you guys' option. I was bemused to hear a young American woman addressing a group of other young women as 'you guys' as in "What do you guys want to do now?". Do you think that it is a consciously chosen form of words picked to avoid the sort of issues discussed above or is it just an affectation used in some parts of the US? In the contex of the group of all women would the speaker's use of 'you girls' have been objectional for some reason?

 

[SantaMufasa]

Steve,

Good question. Isn't it interesting that I would expect a teenage/young adult woman to refer to her peers as "you guys" instead of "you girls". If the speaker said, "What do you girls want to do now?" I believe everyone would consider it a bit "prissy", while none of her peers would think twice about "...you guys...".

Then, of course, you could her a male of any age using either term to his peers, "...you guys...": no second thought; "...you girls...": what do you wuuses want to do now?

Am I off base?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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[sleipnir214]

I doubt you'd hear "you girls", because "you guys" may no longer carries any gender weight. It's just a regional idomatic phrase to disambiguate 2nd-person plural from 2nd-person singular.

Probably the only reason the politically correct crowd haven't gotten around to messing with "you guys" the way they did using "he" or "him" has a genderless pronoun is because none of the P.C. crown wants to admit being familiar with the regionalism "you guys".



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[Stella740pl]

To me, "guys" is not a consciously chosen form of words, but a stable informal expression. According to dictionary.com and yourDictionary.com, with the reference to the American Heritage Dictionary, one of the meanings of the word is the following:
2.guys Informal Persons of either sex.

I would say that an alternative to "you guys" would be "you gals" rather then "you girls"; but "you guys" is more versatile as it suitable for a mixed group. Besides, "you guys", "you gals", and "you girls" seem all to have noticeably different connotations. But then again, English is my second language.

As for "you girls" being objectionable, I've heard that some women do object being called 'girls' as well as 'gals', and would prefer 'women' or 'ladies' where gender matters. I guess just have not met them personally.

In most cases, I wouldn't mind to be called either name. But I would say, it is all in the context. Say, for example, if a phrase like "Now we have to discuss our strategies for the next quarter, and you girls/ladies/etc. can exchange recipes meanwhile" would ever be said in a work environment, what exactly they called you is not the main issue here.

 

[tsdragon]

Although they mean essentially the same thing, I think I prefer the southern (US) "you all" or "y'all" to "you guys". To me it just sounds better. I know that some people consider "you all", and especially "y'all" to be somewhat less than proper usage (i.e. ignorant). But I consider "you guys" to be even more so.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.