"uncopiable" CD deployment 2

[ADoozer]

i was going to tag this on the bottom of thread222-530751 but its a little of topic.

im also not sure this is the right forum, since it is more of a Deployment style question.

anyway here goes.

when i deploy my app, i want to do it on CD, however i want the app to "need" to have the CD in to run. and the final twist is, i want the CD to not be copyable (is that a real word)!!

i know this can be done (computer games do it) but i have no idea where to start!!

ive googled for a while now, and my searches have been unsuccessful!

any help/info etc appreciated!

thanks in advance!!

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[CassandraR]

Hi ADoozer:

I would like to suggest a book to help in making a CD non-copiable. The book is "Crackproof Your Software" by Pavol Cerven. In the book, Pavol describes various techniques for making a CD non-copiable, their advantages and their disadvantages.

The book is published by No Starch Press, which has a web site at

http://www.nostarch.com.

Cassie

 

[ADoozer]

cheers Cassie2002 will look into that...

do you (or anyone) have any idea about the needing to keep the CD in the drive bit (ie do i look for a specific file and poll for that file every x seconds or is there a simpler less resource heavy way)

again input appreciated!!

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[johnwm]

There is an interesting article on CD copy protection (that I'm sure you've read) here:

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-4-1

It may give others an insight


________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'People who live in windowed environments shouldn't cast pointers.'

 

[ADoozer]

nope, not seen that before (your search strings are obviously better than mine ), damn informative read (and ive only read one section so far!!)


If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[CassandraR]

Hi ADoozer:

Chapter 4, CD Protection Tricks, of the aforementioned book contains the following item headings:

How CD-Checkers Work
CD Protection Software
CD-Cops
DiscGuard
LaserLock
SafeCast
SafeDisc
SecuROM
VOB
Other CD Protection Tricks
CD Contains More Than 74 Minutes of Data
Damaged TOC (Table of Contents)
Huge Files
Physical Errors
One or More Huge Files
Demo with Selected Program Functions Limited

Each technique has its strong and weak points. Some of the software in the first list rely on errors in recording the original disc. Some CD drives and some CD writer programs cannot properly handle the error sectors and thus do not copy the data properly.

Cassie

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

The only way I say you could "Secure" your CD is to have have your app know the serial number of the CD that it burnt or stamped onto and check that....but even that is able to be forged. Given the right CD drive and programs like CD Clone or the original Virtual CD which emulate a CD Drive and let you burn a perfect image of the CD onto a hard disk you can't get around it. All you can do it make it difficult enough to get the level of piracy to reasonable level.

From a comercial stand point this means that you gain/don't loose revenue the is more then what it cost you to put the copy protection into place.

Secure is a relative term and until we get quantum entanglement useable no channel will be secure....and even then it will probably only be secure until someone figures out how to tap into the entangled particles.

 

[ADoozer]

Semp: im a firm believer in nothing being secure, im just researching into methods to make it difficult for hackers and pirates

thanks to all for the input!

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[DonQuichote]

Nice article, johnwm!

I also know a copy protection from back in the good old days of the commodore 64 (for floppy disks). Some companies had a special disk copying machine with two heads: One standard size and one double-track sized. All tracks were written with the standard head, except for one. This track was written with the double width head.

What the software did during reading in a normal floppy drive was stepping the head around on the two tracks that actually were one broad track. As the head was moving around, the correct data could always be read.
But copying such a track was hard, as the normal floppy drives did not use the index hole and after copying the tracks would be out-of phase.

I do not know if the same could be done with a CD though.

By the way: The most brilliant copy protection I have ever seen (because of its simplicity) was this: a loader program first formatted the disk and then read in the main program (again, far back in the floppy days). This meant that anyone not careful enough to put the write protection tab on their floppy automatically lost their copy on first run...

Best regards

 

[ADoozer]

cassie2002: the book came today, hoorah! very informative, especially all the software that comes with it. i have softice and some of the trickery does actually work!!
a very good recommend and a star for you!

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[CassandraR]

Hi ADoozer:

You are very welcome. I was impressed with the book and said, "Heck with the budget, I need this one!"

Thanks for the star.

Cassie

 

[hutchkc]

to the best of my knowledge, there is no way that a cd can be made so that it cant be copied. can you make it inconvient, yep, but impossible i am afraid not.


<i>By the way: The most brilliant copy protection I have ever seen (because of its simplicity) was this: a loader program first formatted the disk and then read in the main program (again, far back in the floppy days). This meant that anyone not careful enough to put the write protection tab on their floppy automatically lost their copy on first run...</i>

i also recall that the scheme did not last long (a lot of pissed off people) and went out of business because boycotts.

 

[ADoozer]

hutchkc: i agree. however the topic of this thread and the associated link at the top is i guess to share ideas on making life difficult for the hackers and pirates (not an easy job) problem being, if man creates a solution, man can create a work around for the solution.

from what ive read on the topic so far, about a week (and usually less) is all it takes for security to be broken.

thanx for the input (and maybe ill annoy the customers and send out software on 30 floppys hehe )

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[hutchkc]

that is the problem, how much protection is to much. i have personally felt the wrath from ms on xp. i understand them trying to make life more difficult, but most schemes harm the users more than the pirate. those that pirate will no matter what, all copy protection does is stop those that might try it half-heartedly. for this i think a simple key system is enough. anything more becomes invasive ontot the users computer (ala safecast) and is easily bypassed by those that really want to. so i usually take the route that no protection or minor protection, because if someone wants my code bad enough they will take it, but i want to put as little as possible headaches for my paying users.

 

[ADoozer]

my problem is, i believe that software should be copiable (if you own it). all software that i buy, i copy and if the copy wont run ill go to cdcopyworld and download a EXE that gets round the cd protection. (its not a piracy thing, its a, &quot;well if it gets scratched im screwed&quot; thing)

were lucky in the fact that our software is download only and once you have a copy (of the main app) you download the data files seperately for distribute as you require (our customers are pretty &quot;non piratey&quot

ps: in case your wondering im after encryption/protection coz im developing a game in my spare time.

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

 

[ADoozer]

just been reading april 2004 IMechE magazine.

it would seem a "Dr Martin Richardson" has been developing an uncoppiable cd using holographic images.

im off to google this new concept but if anyone has any links or info that would be good.

thnx

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson

 

[ADoozer]

well not turned up very much yet, but im still looking

http://www.gpfandpartners.com/THIS Teaser.pdf

unfortunately the mechs section of IMechE is still under construction so i cant even link the article.

thnx



If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson