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"Rogue IT" 11

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vbainchicago

vbainchicago

Technical User
Aug 7, 2003
102
US
I've recently found myself in an interesting situation and wanted to get "unbiased IT" opinions. Here's where I'm at:

My "job is not IT related. I've been in purchasing for 9+ years with two different companies. My passion has always been "IT" related - database design, SEO, building websites, building and troubleshooting PC's, networking, etc. I've been working on IT projects on my own for a little over 10 years. I've never had any formal training - everything I know I've taught myself through books, trail and error, and forums like this one. 3 years ago I even started my own consulting company on the side and have been doing fairly well.

I've been with my current company for a little over 4 years. When I started, the "systems" in my department were a joke. Nothing was automated, and no one had any idea how to use even basic functions in MS Office applications. The person who trained me actually told me "Excel is just like Word only it has boxes to help your keep things organized".

In order to do my job more effectively, I designed databases in MS Access. When my co-workers saw that I could get done in 5 minutes what took them 5 hours, they took notice. My systems grew from a single user (me) system to an integrated system that over 25 people use on a daily basis. Some newer employees have even been trained on my software since the day they started, and couldn't do their job effectively if you took my systems out of the picture.

I was recently called into a meeting with my boss (he's pc illiterate) and two of the head IT people from our company. It's a decent size company (over 500 people) so I had never even met the IT people before. I was informed that the work I've done over the last 4 years is what they deem "Rogue IT", and that I was to cease any further development on any system. I was also supposed to hand over all my passwords (I implemented security in my db to prevent tampering) and if I hadn't already, thoroughly document the db design and functionality and hand that over as well. As of today, I've just continued to ignore the requests.

Portions of the db were developed at work, and my boss approved the time spent working on them. My boss has actually requested database modifications and additions over the years. I did a lot of the db design and modifications outside of work on my own PC and on my own time as well.

The justification is that if I leave, no one could support the system. There's no "Access expert" in our IT group. They have requested that I train one of the IT people on Access and walk them through my entire database. Of course, I have to do this in addition to my regular job, as no one will cover my regular responsibilities while I'm "training" my IT department.

What do you think? How would you handle this situation?


VBAinChicago
For Fun -
 
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Sorry I offended, but I don't feel I was harsh.

As the poster said, "I was informed that the work I've done over the last 4 years is what they deem "Rogue IT", and that I was to cease any further development on any system."

Thats evidence that there was not a "team / we're in this together" kinda spirit. I STILL say the approach I would have used is "thats a great database you created, give us some notes and details on it so we can maintained it in case you leave" INSTEAD of the condemnation of being ROGUE IT.

I believe that the works should belong to the company. But my problem was with the ITs confrontation to a user that was only trying to help themselves where there was void. Even if as suggested, the IT department was tooo busy to come up with a system, the alternative indirectly suggested here is NO system at all. No self help. Its funny his boss went along with the database, (im guessing) until probably some IT people found out about it.

And to clarify, Im not a manager but have been doing IT support about 8 years. Maybe I'm NOT an IT guy at heart but try to see all sides to make the greater good. You guys technical skillz amazing but sometimes the social skills exhibited here leave one lacking. Its been great visiting this site.

PEACE

 
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The fact that a user, on their own, begins the development of their own system, without any type of coordination with the IT staff is equally valid evidence of the notion that there was not a "team / we're in this together" kinda spirit. Just as you critisize the IT department for a lack of team spirit, the user showed no team spirit either by not coordinating with IT from the start.

There is no question that when all parties are working together, everyone comes out ahead. But teamwork requires participation by both parties.

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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rphips:
I find it hard to believe that a IT department would not know desktop applications.

Not all IT people are interested or get paid to know desktop applications. In many shops PCs are used as dumb terminals - they don't want them to do anything more than display and accept data.

That was because ITers were developing applications that did pretty much what "desktop applications" do. They had proprietary editors, communication software, client/server applications that interacted with yet more exotic devices that couldn't not be modeled on or prototyped on an average Windows PC.

ITers from such environments as IBM know that CICS, for example, was not developed for Windows and did not try to use desktop stuff to work - a dumb terminal sufficed.

More recently, many of those "legacy" applications are being converted for use accross Internet and on desktops. This was the main reason I, for one, learned Access and the like. Because someone decided to pay me to do it.

There are still many ITers out there who don't know that Access can be used to build a database. You see, MS software in many ways is a generalized form of applications that many ITers get paid to develop. Their clients pay for them in order to stay ahead of technology - they don't prefer off-the-shelf software. There are rumors that some big software houses avoid using their own desktop software - they prefer custom made stuff.

It's perfectly normal not to indulge in MS software.

Dimandja
 
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Thanks everyone, I've really taken some good things out of all these posts. There's only one statement that I feel compelled to reply to:

The fact that a user, on their own, begins the development of their own system, without any type of coordination with the IT staff is equally valid evidence of the notion that there was not a "team / we're in this together" kinda spirit. Just as you critisize the IT department for a lack of team spirit, the user showed no team spirit either by not coordinating with IT from the start.

I have to strongly disagree with this statement. There has to a point where the end user can take some initiative. I create dozens of excel spreadsheets every day that are sent to both internal employees & external vendors. Should I contact IT prior to creating a new Excel spreadsheet so they feel like part of the team? At what point can an end user take initiative - and use the tools that IT provided them with - to make things better?

I feel like what I coordinated is an example of teamwork at it's best - I solicited imput from all the other people in my department in order to create systems that would help them do their job more efficiently. We worked as a team - I did the development but a lot of what I put together was built based on what the users wanted and needed. I don't fully understand every aspect of each persons job and couldn't have developed a helpful tool for them without their help.

I know the IT department is different at every company, but here it borders on embarrassing sometimes. I have simple requests, or "tickets" that have been open for over 3 years. By simple I mean things like replacing my keyboard so I don't have to hit the space bar with all my might to actually move the cursor. About a year ago I just went and bought/replaced my own keyboard. I suppose that's rouge IT too. How far do you think a request for database development would make it?

I guess my main issue is frustration. If I just "hand it over", my job - starting the very next day - becomes more difficult. Instead of leaving at 5:00 I'll be here until 7:00. Instead of breezing through mundane number crunching I'll have to break out the calculator and pen. When someone asks me for a report instead of being able to click a button and say "I just e-mailed it you", I'll have to say "give me 3 days to put that together for you".

It's almost like I'm penalized for utilizing the tools my IT department provided me with to their fullest extent. The more I think about it, it seems that the database is almost secondary to the politics behind wanting to control it.

Thanks again everyone for your valuable input. I'll keep watching this thread, as I've seen more good advice here in a few days than I've seen anywhere else since this fiasco got started.


VBAinChicago
For Fun -
 
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I understand you point vbainchicago, and I don't think that anyone is suggesting that you not take the initiative. The issue and when, and how, you should contact IT when embarking on the development of an application. There have been many posts made here that try to describe the situation from the perspective of IT, and what they've been tasked to do, and what corporate policies, if any, have been mandated on the IT department.

Going back to your original post, you stated, "My systems grew from a single user (me) system to an integrated system that over 25 people use on a daily basis. Some newer employees have even been trained on my software since the day they started, and couldn't do their job effectively if you took my systems out of the picture.". This gives us a good idea of what happens if your system is taken out of the picture, but what happens in you are taken out of the picture, for whatever reason? On whom will the responsibility of maintaining the system fall?

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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VBAinChicago

You did a great job at taking initiative and building a system that has helped your entire department. But the truth of the matter is that it is your IT department’s responsibility to maintain any software application; and for the good reasons mentioned above.
However, I feel you were wronged in the way the IT folks approached you. If there is to be true team spirit in this effort then they should reckon your contribution, which benefited your department and request your time for documentation, training and future support from your manager; you at the same time, should be willing to handover system to IT department and cooperate if your manager approves of it. Cooperation is a two way traffic. IT can’t dismiss your efforts that went into application building. And they are not... for they want to induct it into their domain. But I think their approach should have been better.
If you feel that you won’t get the required support on this application from IT and would like to continue to maintain it then I suggest you should consider joining the IT.


Anand
 
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This is one reason I would suggest looking into the IT dept Service level agreements. Most good sized companies (especially if they outsource all/part of their IT) have service level agreements across deptartments.

Sometimes IT dept need a little nudge. I worked for a company where the system we where developing would litterally take 2 hours to check out and over 5 hours to compile and check in on the machine I was provided. I supplied my own machine for a while but that was not supposed to be a requirement. After repeated failed attempts to get a better machine so I could work effectively I came in one morning and told my manager that I would not bring in my own machine starting from next week. I reminded him over the course of the week and nothing was done. On the following monday I went to make a simple bug fix that took 2 lines of code to fix. Waited the 2 hours to check the project out. Made the change and checked it back in, 5 hours. At the end of the day the manager asked why I apparently was not working all day and I explained I worked as fast as my machine allowed. I had a temporary leased machine the next day and a perminate machine 3 days later. After that the Tech support dept was mandated to write up service level agreements to avoid any political problems that might occur. In this case it was not really IT, as the whole company is IT, but Tech support that was supposed to provide a certian level of support but in this case it wasn't. My project manager used project funds to lease and purchase a new machine because tech support where sitting on it essentially because the manager of tech support had a personal conflict with the account manager of the project I was on. Service level agreements avoid that situation because it is in black and white what their responsiblities are and associated time frames.

Even if you don't have service level agreements in place now this system could be a start. You boss pays for the system as it is now. Just have him negotiate a SLA with IT on it. They probably get a budget to "support" this app directly or indirectly.



Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
 
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Additionally, vbainchicago, since the application you developed is being used within your department, I would wonder if and how you've handled the backup issues. Is it being backed up? On what schedule? Is it part of the corporate data backups? Is is part of the disaster recovery plan?

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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And vbainchicago,

The best thing to do is to systematically document your system, especially at the highest level: many people (ITers included) appreciate an easy to digest funtional spec. When necessary, they will dive into the technical aspects; but, for now, show them how the system helps the company business. You may throw in some figures, in the vain of money/sweat saved/gained. Managers like that.

Dimandja
 
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My opinion is that you can either look at the cup half full or half empty. It looks like they have already made the decision so trying to change there minds and complain about it will only make things worse for you, so half full sounds like the better route. I would approach the situation with open arms, just think you now have the proper resources to take this program to the next level. You could possibly participate in the new direction and maybe learn some new technologies along the way. So rather than complain, say "this is a brilliant idea what can I do."

"Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'."
 
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"this is a brilliant idea what can I do."
I wonder how often IT folks would come out and say that. Granted they are understaffed for what they are set out to do and overworked as well, but who isn’t.
Like some one said in a previous post he simply tried to fill the void, created something where there was nothing.
His application should go to IT for several reasons. Corporate data security, application scalability, backup and recovery are prominent among them.
It would do little good to curb someone’s enthusiasm by being rude to the person. A little encouragement from IT’s side would also go a long way. IT could also encourage him to be designated as the key user and actively seek his feedback on the future developments.


Anand
 
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There's a wierd set of standards that develop here, probably because of the wide swathe that IT cuts across traditional job/role boundaries.

The wierd thing that I'm talking about is that everyone assumes that it is OK for Tina, Bob and Jim to try doing IT jobs (and then complaining when IT professionals change/ban/control what has been done), when they would never consider trying to fill in for, say, the corporate lawyers, or to rewrite established corporate accounting practices
 
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<facetious>
Maybe that's because we IT folk make it look too easy?
</facetious>


I see this quite a bit. Often, it's because non-IT folk only see small parts of the overall IT job. It's one of those &quot;blind men and the elephant&quot; situations.



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!!
 
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How true. It's one thing when Tina, Bob, or Jim try to IT jobs, but when Proteus starts doing them, then ................

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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Cajun -

Yes, I have backups in place.

The app is split - &quot;front end&quot; holds the forms/code/queries, etc.

The backend only holds the tables and it's on a file server that our group has access to. The IT department backs this server up each night.

The primary .mdb front end resides on my local machine. I wrote a script that copies the front end to an offsite web server each night, then sends me an e-mail confirming that the transfer/backup was successful.

I also wrote another script that moves old records (we don't need to keep records form this DB older than 3 years) into an &quot;archive db&quot; that resides on the same server as the primary back end. After it moves the records, & compacts the db, it deletes those records from the primary db and sends me an e-mail confirming that everything went ok. I put this in place to prevent any &quot;bloat&quot; if I happen to be on vacation or otherwise out of town for an extended period of time.

No one has ever had to access the archive db, I put it there &quot;just in case&quot;.


VBAinChicago
For Fun -
 
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Good question strongm. I would feel more comfortable if the front end were copied nightly to same server as the backend to insure it too is backed up daily. It is a real corporate asset and needs to be treated as such.

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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I own the offsite server - it's at my house.

The important files on my home server are backed up nightly to another server at a friends house.

If the backup fails (internet connection down, etc) the files are backed up to an external drive that sits next to the server.

VBAinChicago
For Fun -
 
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