"Purchased" Degrees

[Dollie]

This is an interesting topic I ran across on a discussion board. Instead of copying and pasting the post, I'll paraphrase.

A gentleman hired Nice Guy a few years ago. After an extended evening of drinking recently, the Nice Guy new hire (not a new hire anymore) confessed that his degree was purchased online. Note that this is a purchased degree, not an earned degree. The degree was obtained from a website who "represent universities who grant degrees based on "work history" and "previous college credits." There's no actual university attendance."

Now this gentleman is wondering if he should keep the employee or not. He states that technically, the degree is legal. He is still torn, however, because the new hire is a Nice Guy.

Is this unethical or just underhanded? Devious or brilliant?

Thoughts?

 

[EBGreen]

These are purely my opinions:

There is really no way for us to know. It depends completely on things that no one outside the situation could know. Having said that I don't think Nice Guy did anything unethical as long as he did not try to represent the degree as something other than a piece of paper. In other words if it is merely a line on his resume and he never said things like "Oh we had a class on that when I was going to school". Then he is acting ethically. If however he used the degree to falsely give a potential employer the impression that he had skills that he did not posess, ten he acted unethically imo.

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[gbaughma]

You know, I'm kicking this one back and forth.

I guess the first question is: Is the degree accredited?

Additionally, if Nice Guy is also Hard Worker, and Mr. Knows His Poopie, then I'd keep him, but either way I'd probably make an amendment to his job application process.

Additionally, did the job description say "Degree", or "Degree or comparable work experience", etc.

Food for thought tho.


Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[CajunCenturion]

Has there been any attempt on Mr. Nice Guy's part to deceive? Does his resume and/or job application accurately identify the source of the degree?

If a degree a legal requirement for the job? If so, are there any conditions placed on the nature of the degree, such as that the degree must be from an accredited university? Although the degree may be legal, it may not be valid for that particular job.

Also, since Mr. Nice Guy was hired a few years ago, you must have a reasonable amount of work history. It seems that at this point, given the degree is legal, and assuming that it's also valid, that the work history would be the over-riding factor.

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[Dollie]

Looking back at the post that led me to my posting, I think I might have been conned by a spam bot that posted the same thing to 30+ newsgroups....

BUT, it still brings up an interesting point.

I think if the fictional gentleman had misreprented his degree, or was hired strictly for that degree, it should be the employer's responsibility to verify the education shown on the resume. Although the employee may not have been forthcoming, the employer still has responsibilities. If there are no policies in place, and Nice Guy wasn't hired for his degree, then screaming that it's unethical doesn't hold much water.

 

[pmonett]

Dollie is perfectly right.

On a personal level, I am rather biaised against purchased degrees. I don't like the idea that some people can cut the work and get a diploma by virtue of just putting money on the table.

Yet, if the issue only crops up after several years of work, then two things seem obvious :

1) the employer never bothered to check the validity of the degree, and
2) the employee has performed satisfactorily, otherwise he'd have been fired long ago

Although I do not like purchased degrees, I hold employee performance to a higher standard than a diploma. We have all seen highly educated jerks who seem to do their best to keep everyone from working correctly. I most definitely prefer to work with a guy that bought his diploma but knows his stuff and doesn't hinder MY work.

In the end, being reliable is more important than how the diploma was obtained.

Pascal.

P.S. : but I still don't like the idea of buying the diploma without doing the work.

 

[Spirit]

UK Uni's give degree's out like paper just for turning up. I don't value mine at all and don't mention it on my CV. Complete waste of years of my life IMHO.

If the guy can do the job then good on him, if he's rubbish struggling etc then hang him out to dry!

Experience and Ability is what it's about in this game not bits of paper about the latest greatest piece of software thats come out..........

Iain

Criticially Injured guy walks into conference "help, is there a doctor in the house" all the hands go up...... Injured guy "or more specifically is there a Medical Doctor in the House?" all the hands go back down..........

Just an after thought.....

 

[LadySlinger]

In the end, it really is about the experience. Really would you hire someone fresh from graduating who says, "I learned about this in class" vs. the person that spent the same amount of time working instead of in college, and bought his degree online based on work experience?

I'm not saying that I AGREE with purchased degrees. I personally think that if I had to sit through all those lectures in college to get my degree, then everyone should sit through those lectures to get their degree.

 

[svanels]

If the guy didn't knew his stuff, he would be fired long ago. I met types who were "supposed" to have a degree and could not perform. They threw the towel in the ring short after being hired. There is no silver bullet necessary to get rid of imposters, just give them work..
If I have a purchased degree in "rocket science" but I do a janitor's job, my boss will not pay NASA wages.
Probably the degree was not a pre-requiste for the job.

Steven

 

[BackStageJim]

Degree or not, I hire on skill. I got a great guy from a technical school that writes rings around the University guy. Even the simplest of business ideas are lost when talking to the paper guy. I wonder if he took time from frat class to attend any programming classes.

 

[dennisbbb]

Experience counts. The guy can BS all the way to the interview, but can fool noone within the first two weeks. He/she will be "let go" before the probation period ends.

 

[chiph]

I wouldn't fire him if he's been doing an excellent job.

But I'd have a word with him, and tell him that he really ought to remove it from his resume. It's very likely that a future employer, should they find out, would fire him for lying on his job application.

Chip H.


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[lionelhill]

... every so often the Saturday Newspapers find a doctor or dentist who's been doing the job for the last 5 years without anyone noticing anything seriously amiss, but who hasn't actually got the medical degree they claimed to have.

Given the prevailing feeling in this thread that "experience counts" and a University/degree level education is a waste of time, I take it we are all perfectly happy to be treated by such doctors and dentists?

 

[zeitghost]

I remember one "doctor" who used to prescribe shampoo.

To be taken by mouth...

This was before labels telling you not to do this )

 

[LadySlinger]

I remember reading a crime case that was about a guy that claimed he had earned his doctorate in Cuba (although he was American). He did hatch jobs on plastic surgury and I think he was the guy that had "invented" the snap-on toupee, where snaps were added to your head with a detachable toupee.
He used his wife as a anestheologist (but was never licensed - he "trained" her). and would do the surgury out of his home...basement I think.

In the end after killing a couple of people, prosecution proved that his degree was merely just a piece of paper...no emblem or anything.

 

[dennisbbb]

Comparing doctors to technicians are a little bit extreme, be doctors are only doctors after they attain a certain degree of expertise.

The comparison is really to a nurse. A nurse can be a nurse if he/she knows how to care for a patient. Technicians are technicians only in the experience they have attained for himself/herself.

Similarly, not everyone who goes up the board and lecture for an hour can be called a "professor". You're only a professor if you attained a certain degree and hired by the school to be so.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> You're only a professor if you attained a certain degree

And now we're getting back to the crux of the discussion. What if that degree was purchased?

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[pmonett]

I think the word "degree" was referring to "expertise" and not "piece of paper".

Pascal.

 

[lionelhill]

Two points:

(1) I agree it's a bit excessive to compare surgeons and IT-technicians, but the point is that we expect a level of professional knowledge of both of them. Some people undoubtedly gain a lot of knowledge from their experience, but it tends to be very dependant on what things they happen to have bumped into. A good degree doesn't replace experience, but it provides a carefully thought-out foundation on which to build. The good graduate has a basic knowledge to fall back on if they meet something new. Incidentally, the nurse analogy is definitely an improvement, but nurses (in the UK; I don't know globally) also have training and state-controlled certification; rightly so.

(2) Yes, a person might be doing the job well. But if they deceived you about their degree, would they deceive you again? Passing off a bought degree as earnt is basically dishonest. How safe would you feel, employing someone who will resort to trickery for the benefit of their career?

 

[LadySlinger]

I guess my example of the doctor is a bit extreme, as that person works on human body parts as opposed to hardware/software components.
My main purpose for the example was to demostrate that just because you have a degree doesn't always mean that you're at a higher level then someone else and that you know what you're doing.

I think its safe to say though that we all agree that degree or not, EXPERIENCE is the key factor.

My question though, and this relates to lionhill's 2nd point about dishonesty, is that isn't it true that some companies base their salaries off of not only experience but also degree status? Pretend this person works for a company that does (and don't deny it, there are companies out there that do this) base a certain level of pay on experience and base a level of pay regarding level of degree earned. So someone in the field for 5 years might make slightly more than a person in the field for 5 years who also hold a degree. Would that not be grounds for a readjustment of pay or possibly dismissal?