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Professional Certifications

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MColeman

MColeman

Programmer
Sep 23, 2002
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Today, I got some more junk mail from an organization offering certification classes and exams.

More than once, I've found you cannot "qualify" for some
certification studies if you don't have a college degree.

Some of these organizations are charging exhorbitant fees.

If I can pay the $1500 and I can pass the test, I think I
should be allowed certification even if I don't have a four
year degree.

Experience just doesn't seem to count with these some of these organizations.

Does anyone else have a rant about this?
 
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sleipnir24

Hmmm... okay...I give. I would surely say a Bachelor's degree would have been more useful to me individually because it was accepted with much more respect. Although the graduation rate from high school is declining, it has been my personal experience that a Bachelor's is getting to be viewed almost like a high school diploma now-a-days. Jobs I was searching for when I was unemployed that usually only required experience, were now asking for Bachelor's degree at least.

It used to be that if you graduated with a degree, you were almost guaranteed a good paying job (well, if you were male).

However my concern is with the amount of people furthering their education. We're seeing less and less people and a wider gap between the uneducated and the educated. I recently read an article stating that soon business will be in a pickle because they will have to choose between paying really well for those with a high level of education or pay less, but have to spend money on educating their low-level pay employees on topics such as grammar.

I firmly believe in obtaining as much education as possible. I can't even stand to watch the news anymore, as their always interviewing some illiterate, uneducated joe schmoe who believes everything is black and white. Bleh!

I beleive this country doesn't spend enough time or resources on ensuring we can give the best schooling to our children. Now a days, if you live in a big city, you have to pay big bucks for decent education at a private school. (for primary and secondary school)

Ack...don't get me started on this subject! :)
 
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Over what timeframe are we talking about job requirements going from experience to bachelor's degrees? The last 3 or 4?

If that is the case, it could simply be a matter of employers' low-balling. In a market with high unemployment, employers get to pick and choose. And although in general, the current U.S. and global recession has been mild, it hit the tech world hard, as it came quickly on the heels of the dot-com bust.

It could also be employers' wanting to separate the wheat from the chaff. During the dot-com boom, everybody and his grandmother wanted to be in IT -- and the boom allowed them to. Now you have a bunch of people who aren't really qualified. Asking for degrees can eliminate the certification paper-tigers.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!!
 
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One of the current techniques in the UK is to ask for a degree from Oxbridge or a red brick university (this is roughly similar to asking for an Ivy League graduate in the USA), whereas before they would have been happy with any degree.
This occurs regardless of the quality of the course and graduate's expertise, and is only IMHO done to restrict the number of applicants for a post.

John
 
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"When it comes to professional standards, one cannot help but think that we, the IT industry, is our own worst enemy by setting standards so low."

-- I do have to admit, some of the "paper tiger" certs I have obtained were too easy. Their experience was bereft of any new knowledge gain for me.

"On the flip side Microsoft will give you an MCP for passing 1 hour multiple choice test."

-- But not my MCP cert; I studied and practised for months to prepare for that test. During this training, my knowledge and experience grew exponentially.

The accumulation of "paper tigers" is not my goal; I enjoy
experimenting and learning more about software development. Even though I have a good job, I often create new applications, just for the heck of it.

This month's reading is a Cisco Beginner's guide. I want to color in my gray area of networking.

If you were a hiring IT manager, what certifications and education experience would you value most?
 
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Studies have shown that when baby-boomers start retiring, because of the lack of the current generations education, that pay will be at a premium for the highly-skilled and educated professional.

Again, the gap will widen between the haves and have-nots. Thus causing the have-nots to want more from government (and the linguini spined politicians will give them what they want to be (re)elected). When education would have done for them what they are asking and taking from government.

And where does all of this give-and-take come from? The educated population because they are the ones earning better pay.
 
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What do you mean by "Internet software?" would the team under this manager be writing web servers or browsers, ftp clients, or website design? Or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick entirely.

John
 
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sleipnir -

You make a good point. In my dealings, I have mostly been seeing the cert as a deal breaker.

However I in postings I have seen, the degree is usually preferred over the cert.

And usually length of time taking a test does not indicate the ease of taking the test. And for most of the MS certs you have constanstly take new cert tests to keep your cert, don't you? Or at least that's what I have heard.
 
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No idea. No Mi¢ro$oft cert ever interested me.


But even the degree program would have to be examined. The benefit of a hiring an employee with a bachelor's degree is that it should give the employee a solid grounding in theory. Data Structures, database construction, computer architecture, operating system construction, and the like.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!!
 
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Microsoft do revoke validations of old certifications from time to time. For example, those who took the MCSE in NT 4 lost their MCSE status at the end of last year unless they passed the Windows 2000 upgrade exam.
However, employers don't seem to realise this because there are several that ask for people with an "MCSE in NT4".
I presume that the MCP's in NT4 also lost their status at the same time, it being part of MS's strategy to ensure people keep reasonably up to date with technology.

Microsoft aren't the only culprit on this however: Novell do as well.

John
 
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I am a MCSE-NT4. Microsoft was going to revoke the certification, but wound up leaving it alone.

As a college grad with a B.A., I'd take a college degreee over certification any day. It doesn't have to be an IT-related degree or major either.

Those literature, history, and poli sci courses and the critical thinking skills they developed got me through some pretty tricky MCSE exam questions.

A+, MCSE(NT4), B.A.
 
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Yes, I've had this discussion with a few people. The thing (for lack of a better word) about the IT industry, especially programmers is that we need to be proficient at many areas, not just computers. In my job I need to know statistics, misc. theories, grammar, logic, insurance theories and formulas, customer service theories and formulas, quality assurance theories and formulas, etc... It's not just about if I can create a table, but ensure that my customers are getting the best information and reporting on data and to do so I need to be an expert in these areas in order to fill those requests.
 
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It's perfectly reasonable that a MCSE be tied to a certain generation of products rather than be generic. It is unreasonable to revoke a MCSE. If I were a MCSE on NT4, it's reasonable to say that I'm not certified on Win2K. It is unreasonable to say I'm no longer certified on NT4 just because the product is end-of-life. My knowledge doesn't just evaporate when the date arrives. That's why they left the NT4 alone, and that's why employers still ask for that because they know it.

On the main point, I'd take the degree over certifications most of the time.


Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
 
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But if they don't revoke the certification after a certain period of time, how will MS (or other corporate certification sponsor) make up for the lost revenue stream from re-testing fees?

I will always value the degree over the paper certification. I am far more interested in the person who understands the underlying concepts and theory, and the why things work the way they do.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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Cajun, I agree about the degree. And, of course, the revenue stream is why they wanted to revoke certifications. Fortunately, some employers see through that.


Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
 
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And that MasterRacker should say all you need to know about certifications - it's a revenue stream for the company behind the certification.

Now if we're talking about certifcations awarded by bodies such as the ABET (see post on the PE cert for those who didn't read through the thread), non-profit organizations who aren't selling any products related to the certification, then you'll find certifications which carry some weight.

Otherwise, go to school, learn a few things, and get your degree.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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