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Product Activation Unacceptable 5

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gwinn7

Programmer
Feb 10, 2001
1,004
US
I sincerely hope that I am not the only one to find this new Microsoft product activation system unacceptable.

I have been a fan of Bill Gates and Microsoft for a long time now, but after reading an article in CNET.COM and Microsoft's statement regarding product activation, I became very concerned. Needless to say, if I can avoid it, I won't be upgrading.

Microsoft claims that 37 percent of its software is "softlifted" by consumers. Therefore, Microsoft is demanding that all Windows users register with them in order to obtain a product activation code. Without this code the user cannot run the operating system. Microsoft also claims that most users respond to this new activation system as "That's it?".

Personally, like most people, I enjoy my privacy. I like the freedom of not having to contact Microsoft in order to run their software. Right now, all we have to do is enter a valid key and its done. Most of the software I own has been paid for.

There are many situations where it would be a pain to contact Microsoft to get their product activated. So, when I do have to contact them, what kind of hold times can I expect when I don't have an active Internet connection? How much information and how long will it take for me to hand over all my personal information to this company? In my opinion, the answer is: TOO LONG and TOO MUCH. The CD Key validation was a much simpler fairly effective security step, I will miss it.

I completely agree that companies should protect their intellectual property interests, especially Microsoft. However, Microsoft, I believe, is asking more of the consumer than is necessary. Up to 37% of software may not be "legal", but is Microsoft really suffering because of that? I think not. Take a look at their sales and size. A major reason why they became as much of a success as it has is because consumers felt Microsoft made it easier to run their software on computers where its wanted/needed. Well, now, it is becoming more difficult and demanding every few versions produced. It makes me think, "What's next?".

My interest in the convenience of Linux is growing. I intend to try this out and perhaps purchase more copies for my home and businesses. It is a low cost, fast, stable, and supported operating system. It is an alternative that I am now beginning to consider.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Gary
gwinn7
 
Linux need not be purchased even, it is offered free to all.

However the problem still stands that most software developers are only writing software for the Microsoft OS. Sure there are many things written fot Linux, but when was the last time you went into a software store and saw your favorite software title for the Linux platform? I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it.
 
Well, I have intention on investigating which flavor of Linux is best. Please forgive my Linux naivity, but I thought that Red Hat charged for their operating system. Either way, Linux is worth the investigation.

More Linux applications definitely need to come into the market. The more users of Linux, the more developers would be willing to write software for it. It also presents opportunities for developers worldwide, including myself to cash in on this potential.

Insanity can be the mark of brilliance. Thank you for your response Kspade.

 
"...Developers should create code to suit only their own needs, while paying little attention to the rest of the world. Thre is no one thing that matters in the future development of the Linux operating system....You should not think that we have a direction and that's where we want to go. That's what a company does..." - Linus Torvalds, 2001 (paraphrased)

Linux has been latched on to by MS haters as the rock to topple MS. However, that is never what it was meant to be. It was, from the start, a hobbyist toy. Because it has thousands of hobbyists adding to it, it has become very good at certain things, but it is not be all, end all of OSes.

There is certainly plenty of room to make money developing application for Linux. However, Linux will never be a true replacement for Windows on the business desktop or even the consumer desktop until a structured commercial orgainzation begins to guide development in that direction. In the meantime, go for it. There's a lot of work still to be done.
Jeff

I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
 
Yes, I agree! There will always be people who hate MS and continue to develop the "Linux" platform on their own (good for them!).

Like you said about companies, there are companies like Corel and Red Hat that are shaping their own version of the OS to compete with Microsoft directly. To that I say, good for them and the consumer.

Remember that Windows itself was not meant to be continued until a couple of things happened (1) The separation of Microsoft and IBM over OS/2 issues (2) The ability of Windows to go into protected mode. Windows was meant to fade and OS/2 be the dominant platform, but that changed and look at what is here today. The capability and usage of Linux is changing. If I am not mistaken, it can already take the place of Windows in some business environments. Examples of this would include that Linux does have web hosting capability, it can support a DBMS, and it does have a good office suite. These are only some of the capabilities and this can only expand.

Your quotation seems to describe a person that believes Linux is meant only for the private club of developers. My perception of this is this is a very self-centered point of view without realizing the potential for helping users (non-developers) all over the world. I think if companies want to shrink wrap their own version and make it available for anyone at a reasonable price, more power to them. Perhaps I missed what you were trying to say?

I know you, MasterRacker, already agree with me. I am just simply responding and commenting; not disagreeing with you.

Hopefully, many users will say "no" to this product activation scheme. It would be nice not having to spend my resources learning another platform.

Gary
gwinn7
 
Gary, that quote was from Linus Torvalds, inventor of Linux and still the spiritual leader of the Linux developer community. He wants Linux to gorw "organically" with no though given to anything but the "fun" of coding a cool operating system.

Linux is already an excellent web server and is good for a number of other things. What I was trying to say is that it will not become a good general purpose business system unless it is vigorously guided in that direction. Commercial companies can release their own install routines and add-ons but cannot release different versions of the core OS because of the licensing. The entire core OS needs to be guided toward rock solid business purposes.

I have nothing against Linux. It's just not a competitor to Windows in all areas yet. It never will be if it remains a programmers toy.
Jeff

I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
 
Linux is indees a powerfull OS, in my opinion more powerfull, stable and more secure that windows could ever be. in fact several govt. agencies including the military and some school districts haver switched to linux to perform their applications. there is however still that niche for M$ Windows users, in that most "joe Schmidt's" can install and operate.
MasterRacker is corect tho in saying that to really be efficiant and accepted in the mainstream business community, there need to be changes in the kernal. ANY programmer is permitted to make ANY changes he/she wants to to any art of the OS, including the kernal, as long as they release such alterations to the GPL. i say thoes who can and know how should do so.
infact, check out what is already listed on the GPL( ), it's increddible, not to mention what is avail under BSD general liscence... I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it.
 
MasterRacker,

Excellent. I enjoyed and learned from your comment. Thank you.

Kspade, also good comments!

Gary
gwinn7
 
When Linux and all of it's applications reach the point that they can be purchased off the shelf and implemented to run a business, then they will be a competitor for Microsoft. If every business that wants to use Linux has to hire a programmer, Linux will not compete. That's the bottom line.
Jeff

I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
 
What happened to the original question Guys. Product Activation ? I have no problem with this . If I ever spend $billions writing software I wouldn't want anyone stealing it for free either. So Bill collects some data about the serial number of my graphics card - so what - what's he gonna do with that ? The real reason behind the bitching with P.A. is that it was initially harder to get it for free, like MOST people do ( you know it's true ).

Can we keep to the subject and not keep going on about unix - sorry linux.

Snorky
 
ok, hadn't seen this thread before so I have 2 comments...

1) snorky: My problem with the activation is that I've read that after so many hardware changes, you have to go through the process again... As a technician I get a lot of hardware to evaluate... ie trying a new brand of network card before buying a set of 50 or so to set up a lan, or testing a scsi card before installing it on a server. I often sell the hardware right out of my own computer when a client needs something in a hurry... I don't want to have to call M$ every week or 2 to get a new activation code.

I can't be sure this would happen since I've refused to upgrade to winXP. There is ABSOLUTLY NOTHING new that makes me say "sure let's spend the money getting a site licence for it", and for my home machine I get along fine with 2K, expecially since I use linux most of the time anyway...


2)MasterRacker: why should a company need to be able to purchase everything off the shelf? The OS itself can be downloaded or even installed over the 'net, and most populare programs have been ported already, and it's either a matter or typing ./configure or ./install at the command line, to rpm -i <filename> to install the binaries. Sure back in the 90's it was usually necessary to compile, and then install and configure a program, but now RPM's and binary distibutions are becomming quite plentiful. I just set up an entire server running redhat 7.1, postfix, postgres, apache and CVS without needing to compile a single program (ok, I compiled qmail then re-evaluated the situation and removed it, switching to postfix) Using the WebMin server, I can almost completely administer this machine from a web site, through a nice GUI.

I see FREE binary packages as better than off the shelf packages because 1) they are free 2) they are usually easy to install (even M$ software sometimes takes several attempts to install) 3) installing a linux system is so simple that I've even had my mother set up a system just by reading the on screen instructions. Next attempt to prove that it's as easy or easier than M$ is to convince my grandmother to try (she's never touched a computer before)
 
As usual, I agree halfway - Microsoft has the right to implement a &quot;product activation&quot; scheme that is supposed to prevent their product from being stolen. They can presumably ask for everyone's name, phone, social security number, and mother's maiden name to run the software. That being said, I'm not required to buy it, and with Product Activation I'm not going to buy it - Linux, here I come.

Also, I don't see any merit in asking &quot;is Microsoft really suffering because of software theft?&quot; because I don't think there's any difference ethically between stealing from a big rich company and from a Mom'n'Pop store - but that's a thread for a different forum.
-Steve
 
Hi Steve,

The purpose of the question was not to imply that its okay to steal from a big company as opposed to a small company.

It was to raise the point that Microsoft and its customers would be better served by allowing for some flexibility in their license agreement. Microsoft is in a financial position for this kind of flexibility. I won't attempt to define that &quot;flexibility&quot; here, but it should be phrased with the realistic understanding of the consumer's behavior and needs.

In no way am I saying that stealing software is okay.

Gary
gwinn7
A+, Network+
 
I think Linux is much better than Microsoft Windows... I have an internet club where I initially installed Win NT4.0 and started developing problems and when I eventually switched to LINUX Red Hat... I am still on a smooth road... So, I think Linux is Better if not the best.
 
I agree with Steve's comments here. They can ask for whatever they want, it doesn't mean that I have to buy it. And for the record, I do not intened to purchase the new XP for exactly this reason. Well, that and I don't buy any new Microsoft product until they've issued the second release - for obvious reasons, I hope.

If you want to play with Microsoft now, then play by their rules. If you're not happy with them, then either switch to something else or create your own. Just my two cents... Give me liberty, or give me pizza...
 
Microsoft has just as much right to dictate licensing terms as I have writing my own software licensing terms for software I create. My point was not to dispute that they can or cannot, but rather should they or should they not.

Microsoft is irritating a lot of users out there and I am one of them. My previous comments was mostly a vent as I truly like Microsoft and I do not wish to see them go down a road that most of us don't want to be on.

For the past several months, I have been taking steps toward using Linux, but its going to take time to get myself oriented that way. If you are an IT Pro, as I, we really don't have too much of a choice to ditch MS products as clients tend to buy and use them, and guess who has to support em!

Gary
gwinn7
A+, Network+

 
Can somebody please clarify what product activation actually does. I was under the impression that a product could only be activated once - thus preventing multiple installations from a single license product.
But the other day, I decided to find out what happens if i want to install the product twice (in this case on two machines, but the point was to see how much bullshit i have to go through next time) and it worked fine. I registered both with MS and got them both working.
So i'm a little confused about whats stopping people from doing this in the same way as in the old days when all you needed was a cd key.

--cb
 
Enigma174,
My understanding (and be mindful I haven't purchased anything requiring product activation yet) is that the product can be activated as many times as MS wants to allow, but if there are significant hardware changes between the previous activation and the current one within four months, then you'll have to convince MS that it should be activated. Were the two machines similar make/model? If not, MS shouldn't have allowed you to activate the second machine, according to their own documentation (which I'll try to find a link to, if you want).
-Steve
 
Ahhh, maybe thats it, they were from the same rollout so pretty much identical.
This could be a fatal flaw in the plan - i mean microsoft institited this to prevent businesses from using a single product license on multiple machines, but almost every business i've worked in does mass rollouts of identical machines, so there's nothing stopping them from, say buying one copy of Office or whatever and installing it on all the new machines.

So once again microsoft security measures do little else than make our lives miserable.

--cb
 
From what I heard M$ implemented it only to defeat casual copying - many businesses got copies of XP Pro that worked with CD keys, no activation required. Can you imagine rolling out even a hundred OS upgrades and having to do a hundred individual product activations? Of course, those versions and the CD keys were what got out to the mass filesharing networks, and the only folks dealing with Product Activation are the lowly home users or unlucky small-business network admins.
-Steve
 
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