Problem reclaiming unused HD space after cloning

[emlyna]

Hi,

I just used HDClone to copy the contents of a 20Gb drive to a new faster 80Gb drive. The operation was successful, but I cannot seem to reclaim the additional unused 60Gb of space on the new hard disk.

(The new hard disk has been installed in the place of the original, same location/connectors etc.)

All of the partition software (PowerQuest Partition Magic, Paragon Partition Manager, Windows XP Disk Management) show approximately 18Gb of space used by the XP OS (NTFS), then another tiny partition of about 30Mb (FAT32).

When I read up about HDClone it said "...you only have to add the gained space on the disk via some partitioning tool..." but I have not been successful with this step. The XP system doesn't seem to know that there is more hard disk space available on the new 80Gb drive.

(Does the partition software need to be run from a separate location when partitioning a disk with the OS?)

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Emlyn

 

[Freestone]

Does your BIOS recognize the full 80GB of the new drive?

 

[emlyna]

No, when I checked the BIOS it still thinks it's the old 20Gb drive size.

I was hoping to simply resize the partition but it sounds like this is a tricky thing to do if the OS is installed on it.

 

[garebo]

A friend of mine just did the exact same thing, used HDClone and then used partition magic.
What happens is HDClone will only work, free version that is, if the original hard drive is smaller than the new hard drive, which is usually the case anyway.
Once you have used HDClone and done the job, then reboot and use partition magic to make one large partition of 80 gigs.
What about jumpers? And i take it that you have changed the new hard drive to master? Have you made it an active partition?


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[emlyna]

Thanks for the info.

After I cloned the old drive (from a 20Gb HD to an 80Gb HD) I simply shut off the machine, replaced the old HD with the new one, and turned it back on.

Everything works fine, but the system STILL thinks it's the old 20Gb disk and every software app that I have used cannot *see* that there is another 60Gb of free space! The BIOS only sees it as a 20Gb drive, so it's no wonder the partition apps think this too...

I wouldn't be so concerned if this wasn't the OS drive, but unfortunately it is so I'm reluctant to try to many things for fear of destroying all my installs.

Any ideas?

 

[garebo]

Okay, lets start here:

Who is the mfgr of the hard drive?
Are there more than one hard drive or just the one?
For instance, western digital has jumper settings with only one hard drive and different settings if there is another hard drive on the system, while yet another setting if both are western dig.
After we check that out, how about going to your bios and set the hard drive manually, with the settings you get from the manual for the hard drive, or get the info from the website of the mfgr of that hard drive.
I still think trying partition magic and getting the right settings and commands will do the trick, but lets deal with the above first, sound ok?


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[garebo]

Okay, i contacted my friend, who for some reason cant log in here, but heres what he did, using HDClone.

install new drive as slave
format the new 80G (NTFS)
Partition the new HD ( use Partition Magic)
where the first partition was exactly the same as my original C - HDClone can't utilise the entire HD, it only uses the same size as the old HD
HDClone from

http://www.miray.de

- (free download) on a 1.4 floppy to clone the 40 to the first 40 partition
set the new HD as master
remove old HD
run Partition Magic (on 2 floppies) to resize the first partition to the full 80 (actually 75.4)

no need for fdisk, (the clone copies sector by sector so must copy all the boor record stuff byte by byte?)

reboot and you have xp running as before

Perhaps you might want to start over? Still, first, i would suggest having a look at the items i mentioned above, mainly the mfgr of the new hard drive, jumper settings, bios, etc.


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[emlyna]

Hmmm.

I did exactly all of the steps with HDClone (although I certainly didn't specify any "first 40"--I just cloned the whole of the original drive and it worked just fine.

I guess one of the problems is that I don't have the full version of Partition Magic, just the demo version (which does not allow for creating anything on floppies), so essentially I would have to purchase Partition Magic for $70.00 when the original 80Gb HD costs about the same. Not sure if it's worth it simply for one lousy function

At least the new HD has an 8Mb cache so if nothing else it's faster!

All my HDs are Maxtor, but NONE of the other HDs are currently connected while I've been sorting this out.

I don't really know my way around the BIOS or "setting a HD manually", so I'd have to do some research on this, find the mnfr HD settings and figure it out.

Thanks for your help on this.

Emlyn

 

[wolluf]

Can you do the cloning again - and just use Maxtor's own (free) utility (maxblast) instead?

 

[garebo]

As for the bios, its pretty easy. On bootup you usually keep clicking on the "del" or F1 key, it usually gives you the correct key right on the bootup page you see as its booting. If you are too late, then just do ctrl/alt/del and start again until you get into the bios.
Once in the bios, you have to find the place that refers to ide and then the place that refers to primary master. That is where you change the setting from auto to manual and then enter the parameters for the maxtor drive you have. To get the parameters write down the model number of the drive and go to maxtor and look up the parameters and then enter them in your bios as you boot up. If it doesnt work you can set it back to auto, so no harm done and it may just do the trick for you so that windows will see the full 80 gigs.

I cant say too much about maxtors maxblast as i avoid using them, i find they cause probs down the road, but thats just my experience. Could be because of some of the other progs i use, like goback, etc. But then again just using maxblast to fix the partitions and such will do just fine.




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[emlyna]

Yeah I also tried using Maxblast 3 to do all this but it won't let you select the boot disk--no doubt because it's in use...

I'll try the manual setting in the BIOS.

 

[Freestone]

Before applying the manual method as garebo has advised make sure that IDE hard drive detection in BIOS is set to AUTO. If it is and it still won't detect the 80GB properly, then perhaps a BIOS flash will help. What is the make and model of your system board?

Did you make a bootable diskette or CD when you tried the Maxblast 3 utility?

 

[emlyna]

Currently the BIOS IDE detection IS set to AUTO.

I tried what Garebo said and went into user mode (I didn't see "manual") but it didn't give me any additional options relating to the HD's size so after saveing&exiting I attempted to restart numerous times but each time got the "Error Loading OS" screen at boot.

I reset it to Auto.

*But*, I did find out a few interesting things during my research:

1. The original OS boot HD was set as the secondary master, not primary (a Dell system, so who knows if this was just a factory oversight), so I changed all the connectors and started reappropriating them to a more logical HD sequence. The boot HD is now primary master, and I have 2 additional 250Gb HDs that will be secondary master and slave respectively (all HDs are set to Cable Select mode).

2. The system not only thinks that the current boot HD is only 20Gb, but it also thinks it's a Seagate (apparently this was the make of the original boot HD, even though it says Maxtor on the HD cover--weird! Do Seagate and Maxtor manufacture HDs together?). So no wonder none of these apps are detecting anyting unusual.

Seems like I need to figure out a way to reset what the system thinks is the actual piece of hardware in there--is that what "Flash BIOS" means? I read up on this--a bit scary if it fails--not sure if I want to attempt any of that.

As a final step I will look into my Maxblast software and see if there's anything in there that looks like it will allow me to partition from floppies etc.

Gee, what a lot of work just to reclaim 60Gb! Almost not worth it

 

[Freestone]

Believe me, it really shouldn't be this hard to do what you want. Persevere...

Forget Maxblast and anything else until you get BIOS to recognize the drive properly.

What type of Dell system do you have? Knowing this may enable us to help out more as we can then access technical documents for your particular system .

Flashing BIOS is not the same as resetting BIOS. Flashing BIOS rewrites the system microcode and usually should only be performed to fix problems that are addressed by the update. Most system boards have a jumper that reset BIOS (CMOS) to its default state. But each board has a procedure on using this jumper. Refer to the user manual for the procedure you should follow.

In the BIOS IDE setup, is there any way to force it redetect your attached devices? On some system when you hit enter on the AUTO word, it opens a new window where detection can be reperformed.

 

[emlyna]

In IDE setup it gave me options like these (from what I remember):

None
User
Auto
Atapi
Non-Atapi (I think??)
Other

...soething like that, but it certainly didn't give me any additional window with detection options...

The Dell system I'm on is a Dimension 4400, 2Ghz, 1Gb RAM, XP home. I can look into the specs to see what is entailed with resetting the BIOS.

I'm not entirely unhappy with the cloned HD--it's definitely faster--but it would be nice to have that extra space too!

 

[garebo]

Like the other person said, you only need to persevere and you will get it done. You are a bit over your head here, but you can still do it! Most of us, certainly me, know the feeling, lol.

You dont have to do what i suggested, but if you want to, then go to maxtor and get the parameters for your specific hard drive, and when you go into bios set it to "user" and plug in the numbers and hit enter and then save and exit bios, dont just exit, you have to save and exit.
If that doesnt work all you have to do is go back into your bios and change the ide setting from user to auto and all is undone, so there is no harm trying this and it has worked for me, on the very pc i am typing this on!
For some reason the bios didnt like the hard drive i am using and i had to put in the parameters by myself and after that all was well. It may or may not work for you.
Just make sure you get the parameters right. If you are unsure then just post the model number of your h drive here and someone will get you the parameters you need, that is, if you want to try this step.



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[emlyna]

I did try that user setting in the BIOS, but it didn't give me anyplace to "plug in the numbers". I looked in some of the other settings that became available when I changed it to user mode, but I didn't see anything relating to specifics about hard drives. The only option available to me was simply to save and exit (unless I missed something??).

When I did exit and restart it wouldn't boot until I went back in and set it back to auto (and eventually I also did other things as mentioned in my earlier post).

I'll take another look just in case...

 

[garebo]

You should be able to insert the user settings, i have never not been able to. Perhaps you are using the correct keystoke?
In some bios its page-up and page-down, others use + and -. and sometimes you can use the "tab" key and the arrow keys.
What make of bios is it, award? And what version?


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[emlyna]

I just don't see it. I've been through every page of every section in the BIOS and the only one that relates to IDE has no additional options after setting to AUTO. There are two or three options below that allow for setting various MODES but certainly nothing where I can actually enter stuff about a HD.

Either I must have a different BIOS version or I'm doing something horribly wrong, but I know a thing or two about computers so I'm sure I'm not missing anything in the BIOS.

I'm *really* reluctant to try anything like flashing the BIOS or doing any other PC acrobatics because the machine is operational and I can't afford to have something screw up (it's my only work machine). I guess I'll do without the extra space.

Thanks to all for your help!

Emlyn

 

[garebo]

Your choice, but if you let us help, we can and will get to the bottom of this.
If you have to install a new bios we can help with that too, its actually very easy.
But, first, tell us what bios you have:
probably award and it may say v5.41 something like that.
We arent asking what version your bios is, we are asking what bios are you using in the first place. I can then go to a computer i have and find one with the same bios and then give you EXACT instructions and you can then try it out.
Dont get frustrated. We know you arent a pro, but then neither am i, only a small step ahead of you is all!
Let us help and we will sort this out eventually.


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