POS wiring & choosing a system 2

[rickyl2]

My dad and I are opening a 270 seat restaurant. We have no restaurant or pos experience. I spoke with a Micros guy and he said that we need to run 2 CAT5 cables per terminal.

We haven't chosen our pos system yet, but do most systems require 2 per terminal? Maybe they all do, but I wanted to make sure.

Couple other questions too:

- We would like a system that can easily handle frequent menu changes, theoretical vs. actual food costs, alcohol control, inventory control. What are your opinions on the right POS software for us: Micros, Aloha, Digital Dining, etc...
(the Micros rep told us to use third party software for tracking food costs, alcohol and inventory control?!?!)

- My other business has an account with ScanSource. Do you think it is a good idea for us to buy and setup all the hardware and server myself. And then, hire someone to help with the POS software and setup? I don't mind paying for someone's time, I just hate monthly contracts!


Thanks for your help!
Ricky
imageonex@msn.com

 

[PosGuyUS]

I support POSitouch, in number of sites using it, we're #3 or 4 behind Micros and Aloha. Cheesecake, Outback, Dairy Queen, Uno's use it.
For wiring, we have been telling people to run the double cat 5s for years. That doesn't mean you will use both lines and not all of them either. It is good practice though. If one of the lines fails the wiring test, you can shove it in the wall and use the second one. If someday a line gets damaged and they do, you have a second one already there. If the printers are run via serial cables, then you need the second line to run the each of the kitchen printers. Also having the extra line means you can add a remote or add a terminal without having to run new wires.
For power, they should be telling you to either buy ground guard from them or have an isolated ground put in. Ground guard is the better way to go.
POSitouch comes with a built in, very good inventory program. We only charge for training of it, figure a few hours. I think Aloha's inventory system is extra or they do a third party. Feature for feature you will find POSitouch and Micros pretty close, Aloha maybe just behind it. There are other built in modules for POSitouch, a really good Labor Scheduler and reporting.
The biggest factor to me for any POS is where is the local office for repairs and training and what is support like. What do your neighbors use and are they happy with the service they get.
Make sure the dealer also sells a good commercial firewall unless you are providing your own, a must for doing credit cards. I believe Micros only sells consumer grade routers and somewhere in the fine print tells you to get a firewall. Micros also gets a penny or two from every time you swipe a credit card no matter who you use for credit cards. That could cost you thousands over the years. Not to be confused with a POS dealer who is connected to a processor and gets residuals, most dealers do that.
There are a few POS systems out there touted as free. Be wary of those, they come from Credit Card companies that make you stay in a contract from them and they charge you monthly for service that in the long run will cost you more than just buying the system.
Contact me if you like and I can get you in touch with a local POSitouch dealer.

 

[pmegan]

I've been using Micros 3700 for 15+ years and wouldn't really use any other POS. I've tried the other major systems when the company I work for bought existing restaurants, (1 Aloha, 2 Positouch and 1 Squirrel). After going through training for each with their local offices we traded them in for Micros. They didn't do what we wanted, and some have concepts that seemed backwards to me. I do have to say that Positouch has probably the best kitchen printing options of all the systems I've worked with. Micros includes PCI compliant routers and firewalls with every system they sell; I know because we buy our own and I have to take them off the contracts I get from them. Micros also doesn't get anything from credit card swipes. You pay a setup fee to MerchantLink, which is kind of a middle man between the POS and your processor. Whether you decide to maintain a service contract with them or not is up to you. It's like insurance; seems like a waste of money until something goes wrong.

There's a very simple inventory program that comes with the 3700, and a full blown inventory module that comes installed and is activated by purchasing a license for it. They're both single location solutions though, so if you open a second restaurant the inventories can't be centralized. Menu item & price changes can be made at any time, either in the office or from the terminals, and there's no reset required for them to activate. Menu items are updated in almost real time, so if you add/change/remove a menu item it will take effect in 2-3 minutes at all the terminals. Everything syncs automatically every minute or two.

I've been doing the same thing with cabling as PosGuy and running 2 data lines. Only one is required, but if it goes bad having the spare one there can be a lifesaver. I also run 2 lines to each of the kitchen/bar printers. These days the order printers are, or should be, IP based, so those old return lines for serial printers are thankfully becoming a thing of the past.

He also brings up a good point about service. You can have the best system in the world, but these things take a beating and will break from time to time; usually when you're restaurant is the busiest it's been in months. Getting quick, reliable service is key. Talk to some other restaurant owners/managers in the area and see what they use and what they have to say about service. If you have 2 or 3 POS systems that will work for you, go with the one with the best service reputation in the area.

 

[PosGuyUS]

Pmegan,
what is Micros selling for firewalls? We only see Linksys routers on the proposals.

 

[pmegan]

Our dealership, (Micros New York City), sells the SonicWall TZ-105 firewall along with their systems, and give you a choice of two switches - HP V1405 10/100 or an HP Procurve 10/100/1000 Managed switch. They also offer a service to monitor your network if you go with the Procurve switch, as well as manage Microsoft updates, offsite backups, and general computer issues, which is nice for non-technical people who just want to run a restaurant. The contract I dug up doesn't have a router on it, I'm just guessing that they let the customer's ISP provide that.

 

[coorsman]

For restaurants doing frequent menu changes and or any changes on the fly I would take a look at Squirrel POS. They were the first touch screen pos system in the industry and have been around since the early 80's. It is 100% sequel server based and can quickly run any report going back to day one.

90% of the management functions can be done from any terminal in real time, add change employees, pay rates, new items, change prices, happy hours, special pricing, screen design and button placement.

It keeps management on the floor and out of the office.

The terminals are usually Linux based but you can run Windows terminals. With the Linux terminals there is never a worry of viruses or windows updates.

It's not the cheapest but I think it's the best value for your money and time spent.



Cheers,
Coorsman

 

[aIex]

Agilysys Infogenesis POS...

 

[Moregelen]

Really.. Most of the systems can do the same thing and most of them are reliable if setup correctly. Check which POS has the best support in your area. For example, buying Aloha where I am is a BAD idea. They drop ship things to you and say have fun because they don't have an office in the area, whereas Micros has three offices all in mutual support of each other in the same (fairly large) territory here. To be candid, I'm working at one of those offices.. But there are some places I know of for sure I would never buy Micros because when they have to fly people from the East coast out to the West just to get it done right...

As to the firewall thing, remeber that most offices are dealerships and not corporate. Most of the dealerships, especially the bigger ones like the New York office, sell SonicWall and maintain a staff of people certified on them (you get a discount for doing so). Doesn't mean all of the dealerships approach it that way; some cut corners to reduce sticker shock.

 

[FullPlate]

Don't be held hostage by resellers.

What this means is don't buy a POS system that is distributed by a reseller that

1) has a territory.
2) uses proprietary hardware
3) encourages you to tie your support contract into your credit card processing

Once you are involved with resellers that use these kinds of tactics to retain your business, you begin to lose buying power and mobility. I have seen customers fight for years to be moved to another reseller after some shady moves by the resellers. Mostly because the POS industry is antiquated in it's business modelling.

I would go with Aldelo. Support for software is direct from the company, so you can choose any local network and hardware provider you want. If you are ever dissatisfied, and believe me, you will be, you can easily move to another company to handle it. Also, proprietary hardware means that if you hate the software, you are often stuck if you decide to move to another type of POS system.

This is all based on 25 years of experience with every single POS company out there. I worked for them, I worked for restaurants that used them, and I am a restaurant consultant.

 

[TobeThor]

you can easily move to another company to handle it"

That's not really accurate. If you're position is that any network company can "successfully" support any computer network regardless of the software application that's installed on it and offer a high level onsite support despite not knowing the software nuances; then you haven't learned much over the past 25 years.

 

[pmegan]

Well said TobeThor. Good, reliable, knowledgable support is at least as important as features whe purchasing a POS system. I don't think I would ever buy a product with that level of importance that didn't have some sort of local representation. If you're going to order a POS system online or by phone, why not just get one from China?

Personally I like the fact that the Micros systems I use have proprietary hardware. Yes, they fall a little behind technology wise, but so what? This is a working computer system, not a home toy. I'll take old stability over new features any day. The good thing about it is that service always has the right parts. I've had servers go down with fried main boards and service had them back up and running in 4 hours. Why? Because they have the same model in stock, keep an image of our servers and provide offsite database backups.

That's why you want a POS system with their own local support and proprietary hardware.

 

[AndroidPOS]

How about exploring on using a wireless/Cloud-based Point of Sale system.

There are Full system Point of Sale application that can be installed on Android tablets which can help you lessen the hassle of cables and wire for you to have a good POS system. These kind of POS system also includes wireless printers, card reader and cash drawers for convenience.



Kroid Android POS

http://kroid.net

 

[PosGuyUS]

AndroidPos, do you think your system can handle and has enough features for a 270 restaurant? What's your biggest deployment so far?

 

[pmegan]

Does the Android POS have a backup server on-site for internet outages? If not, how does the POS system work if there's no internet connection? This is one of the reasons I haven't taken any cloud based POS systems into consideration. Most seems to rely on everything working, and that's just not always the case.

 

[sheerdyn]

Pmegan,

I got my system through Restaurant Information Technology. I'm not sure where you are geographically but these guys were up front and were not the typical sales people who sell you and leave u out to dry afterwards.

 

[PosGuyUS]

Sheerdyn, what is the brand of POS you got?

 

[pmegan]

Thanks Sheerdyn, I know what you mean; I've met a lot of salesman at trade shows who just seemed sleazy. I'm based out of Manhattan and have been doing business with the NYC Micros dealership since 1998 and have a great relationship with them which makes a big difference.

 

[hosehead78]

I have to agree with pmegan, Moregelen. I've been using Micros 9700 system fo 8+ year now. It is all about support. Key features and what a system/hardware can do is great until it breaks. For instance, the most common issue for the site I work for is the touch screen wearing down because of the same key presses (popular items or payment methods and such). Having quick turn-around with support for hardware greatly help out.