Please help me reconcile these words with the deeds. 2

[SantaMufasa]

The motto of this Making an Impression forum is:

The words we use and how we use them often reflect our professionalism.

(Please do not misunderstand my intent with this thread. I do NOT intend it to be political in nature. I'm trying to understand how this person can justify and reconcile his words with his behavior from a Making-an-Impression, word-usage perspective.)

Click on this link and help me understand how this apparent commitment could fail so completely? If a news outlet replayed this video on national television, what could be the speaker's explanation?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
“People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel.

 

[guitarzan]

Politicians look for new and improved ways to deceive. Maybe Obama's justification is "Well, my predecessor lied about reasons for starting a freaking war!! So surely I can lie about not taking vacations and get away with it!

 

[kwbMitel]

Maybe because I don't have a vested interest in what goes on in American Politics I can give a different perspective?

I note that this interview was given in 2008. I cannot find a source that specifies when in 2008 but at best guess he was in office for only a few months when this interview occurred.

I further note that the question or comment that he is responding to is not in evidence so significant context is missing

From personal experience, I know that whenever I have started a new job, I have high expectations for myself and set goals that upon reflection, years later, quite often appear unrealistic. I do not think at any point I lied to myself or fooled myself or deceived anyone. I rolled with the punches, made the best of what came my way and when required, did what was best for me. To try and hold me accountable for learning that I either had unrealistic goals or was not up to the challenge would be a fault of my accuser in my mind. Further, when newbies come my way with the same glassy eyed wonder that I remember once having, I smile knowingly and try not to crush their spirit. Some things can only be learned by doing.

When I heard this comment by Obama, I smiled knowingly and read on eagerly to see how others might comment on how naive he seems. Unfortunately the vitriolic criticism I read was not what I was expecting, but in hindsight I guess it should have been. I don't know why so many people have such hate for this man but maybe that is because I don't have a vested interest. He was dealt a very bad hand when he came to office with the economy in shambles and I'm more than impressed that he survived to get another term. When there are different outcomes than people promise/hope for/strive for, it is not necessarily the fault of the person nor would I say they knowingly lied. Sometimes life sucks and no one is immune from fate.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[MakeItSo]

... when in 2008 but at best guess he was in office for only a few months when this interview occurred.

Not even that. It clearly says "pre-election" and "then-Senator" Obama, so he had not been elected yet.

I don't understand the fuss about it. At worst, he *cough* "misoverestimated" *cough* the devotion he had to put into office - or it's simply "pre-election talk" aimed to ensnare the listener into "yes we can" mode.

What, other than show, do you expect from pre-election talk in a country where the best showmaster wins the election?

“Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.” (Kofi Annan)
Oppose SOPA, PIPA, ACTA; measures to curb freedom of information under whatever name whatsoever.

 

[ChrisHunt]

What he said in 2008 (shorn of its original context) appears to be dumb.

Can anybody give up their "fears, doubts, insecurities and foibles"? I think they're part of what makes a person who they are. Would it even be desirable to have a leader who had no fears and no doubts? Those things aren't negative if they're justified, and ignoring them could be catastrophic.

Furthermore, try giving up your "need for sleep, family life, vacations, leisure" for three or six years and see what it does to the quality of your work. Everybody needs to take some downtime now-and-then. Leaders who try to do everything, be there 24/7, fail to delegate, tend to make bad decisions.

Frankly, with some of our glorious leaders, the more time they spend on the golf course the better - it keeps them away from anywhere they might do some damage!

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[ChrisHirst]

Frankly, with some of our glorious leaders, the more time they spend on the golf course the better - it keeps them away from anywhere they might do some damage!

Lemme hear an Amen to that!



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[SamBones]

Pre-election hollow rhetoric. It means nothing.

What does mean something are the lies we've been fed over and over post-election. "The most transparent administration", "I will cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term", "if you like your plan you can keep your plan (period)", "it was in response to a YouTube video", "I will close Guantanamo Bay", "we don't negotiate with terrorists", "I pledge to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution", etc, etc, etc.

 

[SamBones]

Yeah, I was thinking that if he went on a full time golf vacation, we'd be better off. But then I was wondering if "Shotgun Joe" would have to step up and take the helm. That would be much worse!

 

[SantaMufasa]

Pre-election hollow rhetoric. It means nothing.

So what are you suggesting?...That no one holds him accountable for what he says?...Give him a pass?

...try giving up your "need for sleep, family life, vacations, leisure" for three or six years and see what it does to the quality of your work.

Precisely, Chris...Any right-thinking person knows that. Yet he made the commitment despite knowing it was a promise impossible to fulfill. As far as I can tell, he said it out of either a say-anything-to-win attitude (i.e., standard political liar), or from the extreme naïvete that results from someone whose previous maximum executive experience was trying to manage a household composed of himself, a wife, and two kids.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
“People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel.

 

[ChrisHirst]

So what are you suggesting?...That no one holds him accountable for what he says?...Give him a pass?

I think Sam is suggesting that like all politicians you can tell when he is lying, ...


Because his lips are moving.

Does anybody actually believe that politicians DO run the country ... ANY country??


They are just there to make people believe in "democracy", while the bureaucrats wield the power and they simply carry on regardless of who is supposedly in the driving seat.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[guitarzan]

Santa:
As I alluded to in my first post, politicians are truly non-partisan when it comes to lying, misrepresenting, BS-ing. They pretty much all do it. What I don't understand is, why you would post something clearly political in nature under the pretense of it not being political in nature? What does Obama's maximum executive experience have to do with anything relating to the words he uses?

I'm actually happy to see this thread consist of balanced views about politicians. It aint the USA/Left that is the problem. Or the right. Or the UK/Conservative or Labour party etc. It's a general far-reaching problem that gets worse as time goes on. They ALL lie. I guess the only metric at this point is, how important are the things they lie about? Which group of people sucks the least? Sad, really.

 

[kwbMitel]

@guitarzan - How do you define a lie?

Is it something like when someone says something that is provably false? I have made statements on this website that are provably false. I did not lie, I simply was mistaken.

I define a lie as something that the speaker knows is false when spoken. I do not believe anything in the clip should be contrued as a lie or even an attempt to deceive. I believe Obama believed those words or at least he belived the image he had in his mind was reflected by those words. He was expressing passion for the position and trying to convey how important he felt it was. I admire his enthusiasm, misplaced as it seems in hindsight. Naive is the best term I can come up with to decribe my impression.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[ChrisHirst]

A lie is not necessarily something that can be proven false, as you say it could be that the person is acting in good faith albeit with erroneous information.

Lying is in the intent not the action, so I would define a lie as:
When a person deliberately and intentionally misrepresents the facts in order to change a third party's perception.

There are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies and statistics. Benjamin Disraeli

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[SamBones]

So what are you suggesting?...That no one holds him accountable for what he says?...Give him a pass?

No, not at all. That's just me being frustrated. I wish they would be held accountable, both sides of the aisle and all the way up to the oval office.

What frustrates me is that no one seems to ever be held accountable for their lies. The press, which is an important part of the checks and balances of our political system, have hidden and suppressed, and spun events to suit the current administration. The DOJ is being selective in which laws it enforces or ignores. The IRS (the only organization that can destroy a person's life without scrutiny or backlash) has become a coercive organization. The judicial branch is being stacked for future efforts. And congress has become pretty much impotent.

America is broken.

 

[fumei]

If I may...

It does not even seem close to being a lie. Hyperbole, maybe. Being somewhat naïve, maybe. A lie? Hardly. Or if it IS to be considered a lie then every single person who makes effort to run for office is guilty of lying (which may in fact be the case). What I find objectionable is that this sort of grossly unbalanced finger pointing can be stated as being non-political. Shame on you Dave. You know better. It is overtly political. Or...do you also have some video with perhaps stupid naïve comments from someone whose political leanings you agree with? You know, to balance things off and prove that it is not political? If so, please post the appropriate link.

What is worse, is that it lessens legitimate criticism that can be leveled at Mr. Obama. Good lord there are quite a few things that can be pointed at that show deceit or serious obstructive dancing with accuracy and truth. This? A cheap shot that if applied as a symbol of "accountability" or:

I'm trying to understand how this person can justify and reconcile his words with his behavior

would condemn everyone from a parent who misses their kids music recital, on up.

And congress has become pretty much impotent.

It seems to be self-inflicted.


Gerry

 

[Olaf Doschke]

Dave, for those not following current news, being foreigners for example, you might give a bit more context why this flashback to pre election now blames Obama as a liar (more than the usual political election lies known in all the world).

Anyway, I can contribute how the french state secretary Laurent Fabious rebuked european politicians to not interrupt their holidays while people die in Iraq and decisions have to be reconsidered about deliveries of arms to support the fight against religious annihilation. It's easy to make such accusations, on the other side even if many presidents agree they don't have the power to change the world according to his ideals or promises instantly. Politics is hard work, not only in times of a government shutdown, in which by the way the Republicans didn't make a good impression worldwide. You go through many discussion and negotiations before even something comparingly simple like a beltway can be realized. The only ones to really blame are the ISIS in reagard of Iraq and in general what would help is better education, more tolerance and respect. We all just want a life in peace and freedom.

If you want insight and cooperation from someone, you don't ridicule him, you explain your position and ideas to get them on your side and respect the ones you can't convince for having their own considerations.

How can anybody have holidays and fun and laughter, while deadly diseases are underexplored? While hunger isn't solved? Simple answer is, not everybody can contribute to anything. A few decades earlier we wouldn't have known about what happens on the other side of the world. If you ask me, politicians are setting the outset for a better life and do that in long terms. They might be involved in short term decisions, too, but they are not the most important and shouldn't be the most important people in regard of anything needing fast an concrete decisions. That should be done by laws and better yet the intent of the laws. That's subject to subjectivity, but then just taking laws and other regulations literally on it isn't objective, too.

Olaf

 

[ChrisHirst]

We all just want a life in peace and freedom.

Never going to happen, well not until the human population is reduced to one single person, then there is nobody at all to envy or fall out with.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[ChrisHunt]

He made the commitment despite knowing it was a promise impossible to fulfill. As far as I can tell, he said it out of either a say-anything-to-win attitude

The thing is, you're likely to hear the same macho posturing from any prospective candidate, despite the fact that anyone with half a brain can tell it's bullshit. The reason is that there's a very considerable number of people with less than half a brain but with a vote - and macho posturing often appeals to them.

One of the problems with democracy is that it makes lying almost inevitable.

Suppose there is a highly desirable <Policy X> that you know lots of people would like to see in place. Suppose you also know that there is a not-immediately-obvious <Reason Y> that makes it near impossible to implement <Policy X>. Do you...

a) Lambast the opposition for not implementing <Policy X> and promise to do so. You can then "discover" <Reason Y> when/if you're elected to get out of doing it yourself.

b) Go easy on the opposition on <Policy X>, explaining <Reason Y> as to why it's not possible

Option (b) is, of course, the honest choice - but there will be plenty of other people ready to go for option (a) who will take votes away from you as a result. What use is your superior integrity to anybody if you don't actually get elected to do anything with it?

Churchill was right when he said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried."



-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[IPGuru]

I prefer this quote (not sure whoo said it first though)

Q: how do you know a when a politition is lying?
A: His lips Move

A Maintenance contract is essential, not a Luxury.
Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

 

[Andrzejek]

IPGuru,
Not only 'politition'...
Many ladies say the same about guys, and many adults say the same about teenagers.

Have fun.

---- Andy

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.