Photos and Pro Printing from InDesign CS2

[DarrenSPhoto]

I've been doing photography for a number of years and recently, a client for whom I provided a number of photos, has asked me to design some layouts for possible magazine style brochures/books. So I decided to go with Adobe's InDesign CS2.

Currently I'm using an 8MP camera and at 300 dpi it's largest print size is just under 8.5x11 inches.

First, I imported a JPG file that was 72dpi. I assumed InDesign would automatically reduce the dimensional size the image to fit on the 8.5x11 inch page, but it did not, it was huge and clearly much larger than the 8.5x11inch document. But that did not make any sense to me. Obviously in Photoshop, when you convert a 72dpi image to 300dpi, its dimensions change to account for the density of the image.

But why didn't this happen in InDesign...

Does InDesign have a default dpi or lpi? And if so, what is it? And Can I change it?

 

[boraparis]

Trust nobody!!! Read ID Help Color management etc. This is endless topic.
I wash my hands.

 

[jimoblak]

boraparis finally provides excellent advice when he/she writes: 'Read ID Help Color management etc.'

The following is from InDesign CS2 Help.

Preparing imported graphics for color management

Use the following general guidelines to prepare graphics for being color-managed in Adobe applications:

*Embed an ICC-compliant profile when you save the file. The file formats that support embedded profiles are JPEG, PDF, PSD (Photoshop), AI (Illustrator), INDD (InDesign), and TIFF.

*If you plan to reuse a color graphic for multiple final output devices or media, such as for print, video, and the web, prepare the graphic using RGB or Lab colors whenever possible. If you must save in a color model other than RGB or Lab, keep a copy of the original graphic. RGB and Lab color models represent larger color gamuts than most output devices can reproduce, retaining as much color information as possible before being translated to a smaller output color gamut.

boraparis has gone to great lengths in this thread to incorrectly state what should not be done based on his own experience. But his experience is not universal and is not applicable to InDesign CS2 and its default color management. I simply stated what is possible if you know what you are doing. There is nothing wrong in exploring your possibilities, especially, if they are recommended by the creators of InDesign, as noted in their help files (and if they ensure better quality output).

 

[boraparis]

According to jimoblak (Instructor) warnings regarding to colors in IDCS2 are just for fun, and to increase CS2 cost. More that this: " if you have no clue about color management, use CMYK images. If you use InDesign CS2 with a color managed workflow, then you may retain your images in RGB." and all the rest is just for instructors. So you don't have to know about CMYK-RGB problem, it's jimoblak's magic and 21century scam.
In reality from CS2 Help: "A color management system (CMS) compares the color space in which a color was created to the color space in which the same color will be output, and makes the necessary adjustments to represent the color as consistently as possible among different devices." No words about conversion! Please don't mix eggs and God's blessing
If you really care this is one more link

http://digitalads.hvacrbusiness.com/Apps/hvacrdig.nsf/InDesignCS2OSX.pdf

page 8-preflight
Or may be it's just for fun? I was wondering why CS2 is so expensive? Now I know because of useless stuff as Color Management, warnings, preflight, etc. I forgot now is 21 century!!!

 

[jimoblak]

boraparis, that PDF file you just linked advises the reader to disable the default color management designed for InDesign CS2 so that you must restrict yourself to CMYK images. How do you argue proper color management and then post a link that describes how to disable color management? It does not make sense. Why buy CS2 if you are not going to make use of its features?

The author of that PDF is mistaken on other issues as well. Check out the last portion of that document: that printer advises making PostScript and then distilling to PDF instead of exporting PDF directly from InDesign. This is not practical unless you have a limited workflow like this particular printer. We all know PostScript does not support live transparency. Why dumb down your document in that way?

The reason why that PDF file exists at hvacrbusiness.com is because that printer has established their own workflow that varies from the mainstream. If their own workflow matched mainstream workflows, they could have referred to Adobe's or someone else's documentation to explain best practices.

boraparis asked for documentation from the ID Help and it was presented clearly. It appears that some are having great difficulty in accepting progress in the design business.

 

[jimoblak]

I missed addressing this as well...

In reality from CS2 Help: "A color management system (CMS) compares the color space in which a color was created to the color space in which the same color will be output, and makes the necessary adjustments to represent the color as consistently as possible among different devices." No words about conversion!

Yes - there are plenty of words about conversion there. I am confused how you are unable to comprehend this text. Conversion occurs between the 'different devices' based on profiles. That is how you 'represent the color as consistently as possible among different devices'. The device might be an electronic RGB display or it might be the output device that creates CMYK film or plates. How can you possibly be ignorant of this core concept of color management but still argue about proper use of color?

 

[jmgalvin]

In the year 2525
This thread will still be alive

Come on guys. With any application there are a zillion ways of doing things that will give a fine result.

Using OSX 10.3.9 on a G4

 

[boraparis]

For safety, you should only be using transparency effects with CMYK art. Mixing spot inks and RGB image this way can cause problems."

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1129947&page=6

jimoblak, it's your words problems!

 

[dmacster]

Well, certainly a busy thread. I'm quite interested in an RGB workflow, jimoblak - not sure how the rest at work would respond, but even with the back and forth in this thread, you've all provided some good links to further study and decide.

Thanks,
Donna

 

[jimoblak]

boraparis, you quoted me from over a year ago. Here is another quote I made in this thread:

Simply saying 'convert to CMYK' is advice even I have used in the past

That comment from November 2005 was made while I was still working primarily in CS1. I am able to learn. Why can't you?

However, that old comment may still hold true. The overall issue was related to color management, which apparently was not being employed appropriately in that case. We have no way of knowing the settings being used.

Adobe publishes a best practices document for transparency. You can read this document for further edification if this really interests you.

Through this lengthy discourse I have come to realize that English is not the primary language of boraparis. I understand the miscommunication between us now.

 

[boraparis]

you are right my primary language is Java and I am green! But even if my primary is not English it allows me to manage 13 English native people in large known newspaper and teach them how to use CMYK and RGB. Why? because they are lazzzzzy to open Help. They rather will ask,

 

[jimoblak]

you've all provided some good links to further study and decide.

There is no requirement that anyone decides on a new workflow. This is all optional. What we can certainly all learn from this (whether we remain with CMYK or adopt RGB as well) is that the color management defaults in IDCS2 are different than in previous versions. You may see different results if you open a CS1 file in CS2 color-managed workflow. Be prepared by reading up on this.

 

[dmacster]

Thanks - I will. Something to ponder. All CS2 here at the moment.

Donna

 

[AlanF777]

Hi, folks -- google brought me here!

I'm a contributing photographer for a small-town newspaper.

On occasion I do a full-page layout using Indesign & Photoshop (and following the printers' recommendations to set levels 20,235 gamma 1.8 -- as a photoshop adjustment layer).

I export my layout as a PDF file, which is picked up by the layout person, who uses Acrobat to lay out the whole paper. Most of the time we print in Black and White, but every once in a while we print in color.

For a long time I've been grumbling about how washed-out my pictures look, but the layout person says that everything's fine. Recently I've been lowering gamma to get a bit more contrast.

I've just upgraded from CS2 (InDesign,Photoshop,...) and Acrobat 7 Reader, to CS3 (InDesign,Photoshop,Acrobat 8 Pro ...) ... and I think I see what's happenning.

When I load a picture into Acrobat 8 (or change the zoom) it first shows the page in 'bright' colors, and then immediately redraws it in 'washed out' mode, so pure black becomes gray. This includes stuff like black text entered in InDesign, and black frames round pictures.

When I do a screen capture from InDesign the colors are right. When I open the PDF in photoshop they are also right.

I think that what's happening is that InDesign is exporting the PDF with some 'output intent' (I can see that for printing there are options like 20% dot shrinkage and gamma 1.8, which would explain why my black is turning gray and everything else is washed out too) and then I think that Acrobat 8 is obeying this 'output intent'.

SO : how do I tell InDesign to export 'pure sRGB' with no output intent; and/or how do I tell the paper layout designer how to pursuade Acrobat to read the file ignoring any output intent.

 

[AlanF777]

{ I guess I should have asked what the protocol is for this forum. Some folks like a new thread for everthing, others like to tag a related question onto an existing thread ... ]